PK Logs.

[Tom]

Not that I agree with SM's concerns, but I think it's only fair to point out that the majority of the elite players have indeed been her since the beginning (or close to there), and the forums and community in general at that point were far, far more open to exchanging game information outside of the game.

[Belegriel]

It will not take you "years" to learn how to kill and how to survive. You have to put forth a little effort for both and if you get frustrated and quit, you'll never learn anything.

[Goomf]

Rephrasing spells instead of taking them out does just what you are complaining about: letting newer players see "AH' date=' that WM/Savant has some cool skill that will hurt me really bad/ let me forget things (?)". He still does not know what spell/skill it is exactly and how it is best used. For that, he has to roll up a WM/Savant and experiment. This "half-editing" gives some incentive to learn and it also makes the log more fun to real for the more experienced player in my opinion. If you prefer I can go back to editing them to "Something happens, you have to figure out what yourself." again. There you see what we Imms get for trying to make the read a bit more fun and investing quite a bit of time into checking and double checking logs. And then the pbase wonders why there are no pk logs around. I think I have enough of posting some for a while as well now. [/quote']

How many newer players has come over the past year? Two years? Idealistically, it makes sense. In reality, people read pk logs because they are bored and want to see a damned good fight. It seems heavily modification of those logs detracts from how enjoyable they are.

"If you prefer I can go back to editing them to ". I think some people are trying to use logic and state that heavily modified logs suck. Your statement goes directly polar to what people are trying to say .

Once again, good and noble intentions. The glove doesn't fit the hand though.

When I started playing CF about 2 years ago, I remember thinking 'wow this is so awesome' after reading some logs. There were nothing mysterious about them; rather, they just showed some damned cool skills and affects. Those logs didn't state 'the bludgeon of midget bashing' or 'Something's someone draws a pistol and pops you a new one.'

I think they detract from the purpose of posting logs.

[Belegriel]

It has been the policy of FL for as long as I can remember that PK logs were edited, this staff, the previous and the previous. Some get more heavily edited than others b/c of the spells/skills/items used. I highly doubt they will be opened up for all to see, in fact I am against it completely.

[Shadowmaster]

?

If you prefer I can go back to editing them to "Something happens' date=' you have to figure out what yourself." again. There you see what we Imms get for trying to make the read a bit more fun and investing quite a bit of time into checking and double checking logs. And then the pbase wonders why there are no pk logs around. I think I have enough of posting some for a while as well now. [/quote']

Or you could just stop editing pk logs that don't include qrace/qclass abilities? Whats the point of editing the name of a cabal skill when you leave in it's effects? So people who don't explicitly know (Who could only be noobs, btw) are left wondering...

I know WM has a move that does XXXX.

I just don't know it's damned name!!!!!

Your logic makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The only players who are not going to know exactly what is going on, are new players, and they are the ones you want to become better and more knowledgeable. Making them spend years rolling chars just to find out the name/rank you get a cabal skill just defies logic. The same can be said for non-unique items. Is it really going to unbalance things if Joe Noob knows that the ice sword casts icicle?

[Pali]

I understand your point' date=' but don't be shocked when one day you look up and realize you've been fighting the same 10 players over, and over, and over, and over again, because it is likely that [b']no new player is going to spend years learning a text based MUD just to catch up to those of you who have played/fought every class. In the rare event that they do, chances are, the MUD will have lost one or more experienced players over that same period of time, and the net result is less skilled players.

If you have any desire of increasing the playerbase, it may be prudent to consider actually revealing what non qclasses/qraces can do rather then saying "Go play one and find out yourself". Ideally you want the MUD to have loads of elite players, rather then a select few who are only elite by virtue of having played here since day 1.

First, perhaps you missed where I said it took me six months, not years, to learn about 90% of my game knowledge now. Second, it's very specific classes that have very specific things hidden about them. Blademaster crit strikes, dk malforms, cleric DI/holy hands... if you can think of any other normal classes that have things hidden, please mention them, since I can't.

As for all the elite players having been here since the beginning, by my understanding, Behrens was not, Despiser was not, as well as a few others who I can't name at the moment.

[Goomf]

It has been the policy of FL for as long as I can remember that PK logs were edited' date=' this staff, the previous and the previous. Some get more heavily edited than others b/c of the spells/skills/items used. I highly doubt they will be opened up for all to see, in fact I am against it completely.[/quote']

...Why?... Just because it has been the policy of FL?

[Belegriel]

So you have to actually do something in order to learn about things, not have them handed to you on a silver platter by way of the forum and OOC knowledge.

[Anume]

Not polar at all. Let me explain. There are two options: Heavy editing (something does something, something happens) or "half-editing" (where you can guess what actually happens). NO editing is not an option as it has been set down by the current IMPs that pk logs WILL be edited. Period. What one of you is complaining about, is that I left in some effects. This does not mean you just have to find out the name of the spell/skill, you also have to find out how it is used and under which circumstances it works. It requires a little work from you but gives some incentive (makes you curious) to figure out ... cabal by getting into it. I'm also a fan of this "half-editing" as a player who already knows the skill/spell can easily guess what is going on, + some of the renaming makes the logs more fun to read.

[Shadowmaster]

Resistance is futile.

So you have to actually do something in order to learn about things' date=' not have them handed to you on a silver platter by way of the forum and OOC knowledge.[/quote']

In the hopes of ending this pissing match, I wish your MUD the best of luck in increasing your veteran playerbase in the future.

Just out of curiousity, in the last few years, have player numbers gone up or down?

[Anume]

This is a mood point that has already been discussed to death, please refer to facts and fiction about fl (its stickied on General Discussion) or the dozen other threads where this was discussed in depth already. Number of players for text based games are declining in general lately and yes, we have had an increasing pbase lately, there has been a time when we had about 4 people on for a short while (that was terrifying). Now we are at about 15 - 35 players on usually, which I would call quite an increase.

[Pali]

So you have to actually do something in order to learn about things' date=' not have them handed to you on a silver platter by way of the forum and OOC knowledge.[/quote']

EXACTLY. Just because something isn't applied for doesn't mean that everybody should instantly know what it does or how it does it. The VAST majority of skills, spells, and eq are not edited out of logs, it's the really special abilities that are. Special abilities you should learn in game.

[Goomf]

Not polar at all. Let me explain. There are two options: Heavy editing (something does something' date=' something happens) or "half-editing" (where you can guess what actually happens). NO editing is not an option as it has been set down by the current IMPs that pk logs WILL be edited. Period. What one of you is complaining about, is that I left in some effects. This does not mean you just have to find out the name of the spell/skill, you also have to find out how it is used and under which circumstances it works. It requires a little work from you but gives some incentive (makes you curious) to figure out ... cabal by getting into it. I'm also a fan of this "half-editing" as a player who already knows the skill/spell can easily guess what is going on, + some of the renaming makes the logs more fun to read.[/quote']

I agree that some things like lich abilities should be editted. The rest...a little iffy. SM keeps bringing about pbase increase, and although there are other factors contributing to it, that's not the issue. It's how much the pbase increases.

My last thought...be more realistic. If you're looking to increase pbase, this isn't working. Rather, it's just decreasing the number of pk logs (or so I assume, corrent me if I'm wrong) because people don't want to heavily modify their pk logs. I sure as heck didn't want to do that. In the other mud I posted a few logs up because I didn't have to waste 5 minutes going through it.

[Pali]

I've never found editting a log to be that hard... pop it into Word, use find and replace for anything that needs to be editted, and viola! Clean log.

[Shadowmaster]

In the end.

As for all the elite players having been here since the beginning' date=' by my understanding, Behrens was not, Despiser was not, as well as a few others who I can't name at the moment.[/quote']

It boils down to whether or not you mind waiting a minimum of a year(likely a lot more) for a new player to becoming a competent opponent.

[Deykari]

And you think by showing the affects of cabal/qrace/qlass/whatever skills it will reduce that amount by a significant amount?

Dey

[Chromatic]

Well...I got two years, get a pk or two on a character and call it a win. I get better and better with each fight, but still have that dreaded equipment-loving syndrome, so I tend to be less aggressive. The pk's I got were when I was fed up with running or having some pesky ninja strangle me, so I prepared, hunted it down, and killed it. I do have a rage problem with people killing others who they outrank while said person is hunting.

[Shadowmaster]

And you think by showing the affects of cabal/qrace/qlass/whatever skills it will reduce that amount by a significant amount?

Dey

Yes, because new players then have a general idea of what each opponent can throw at them, independent of q-race/q-class/unique gear.

[Deykari]

I give up.

Dey

[Acerbity]

Likewise, Dey.

[Pali]

It boils down to whether or not you mind waiting a minimum of a year(likely a lot more) for a new player to becoming a competent opponent.

Again... I stated six months, which is not in any way an exagerration. At the end of those six months I had two chars at 50 with at least three times as many kills as they had deaths. And while yes, I'm willing to wait that long for that person to be a competent opponent, you make it sound like you need to know every ability to do well. You don't. I've won against classes I'd barely experienced before (Second time I ever fought a blademaster I won, first time I fought a Crusader I won, third time I fought a vamp I won...), simply by being careful. You don't need to know everything about a class to beat it, you need to know the general strategies for combat. Knowing everything about that class helps, but it's far from necessary.

Edit: And I haven't been here from day 1. I started playing during the time of Gorath, Calandra, Harishiin, Hersnaie, and many others. You think you've got a hard time now? Imagine back in 1.0 when cabal skills let regular warmasters drop 1k damage per round without a sweat, where Conclaves could (and were designed to) fight off five opponents at once, and Savants could pop in from anywhere and didn't require +hp eq. That's the environment I learned in, and trust me, this game is FAR more balanced now. Want to learn to PK? Pick whatever cabal has the least members compared to its opponent, roll one up, powerrank, get in, and start fighting 2-1, 3-1, or 5-1 odds. That'll teach you QUICK.

[Lexi]

In many other MMORPG's it takes a year or more to become competent.

[Deykari]

Six months, and 2 pinns, Pali. I'm totally not jealous. And it totally hasn't taken me a couple of years or so to get to where I am now either.

*Words in bold, don't really count.

Dey

[WagesofSin]

I agree to an extent. I don't think qraces/qclasses should be revealed, those are classes meant for advanced players. I do feel that basic class info should be freely available, including info such as malforms/mana charge/Divine intervention especially since a Halloween madness or a glimpse at the code can reveal those things. Let's even out the playing field. Equipment too, should be revealed.

Imagine playing counter-strike(or whatever FPS) where you start out with your knife and the only way to get weapons is to find them on the map. You're running around with your knife but keep on getting killed by some nutter who knows how/where to get the Awp.

For a newbie, this is a HUGE hurdle to get over, and is very discouraging. At level 50, equipment plays a monumental role and should be revealed. Maybe this will put a reliance on strategy rather than equipment.

[Lexi]

Well.. Items are available to anyone in-game. Ask people for directions, ask people for help, or just ask to identify the item. More often than not, you will be pointed in the right direction. At least that is my personal experience.