PK Logs.

[Shadowmaster]

?

Just as an additional thought...

Does it not behoove the newer player to read the class essays? I would think essays written by IMMs, former IMMs, and veteran players specifically for the classes in question would be FAR more valuable than player logs for learning the basics, and that information is just a click away.

If a new player reads the invoker essay that says "You should always use a fully mana-charged and cursed two-handed staff". Or read a log and see an invoker using this mana-charged and cursed staff so I can see just what difference that a fully mana-charged staff brings. Which do you think is more helpful?

[Shadowmaster]

?

to answer your last question..

because spoilers suck...and as long as there is more to discover there is more to do and more to play.

And most people get a feeling of accomplishment when they discover something on their own, rather than have it handed to them with no effort.

What is a spoiler about being able to post 100% of a non-quest class skills in a log rather then 95% like it is currently?

[Deykari]

The affects of having a fully mana-charged staff aren't edited out of PK logs. The actual specifics of the skill and how it works are to remain secretive and down to experimentation, but a PK log with the affects of mana-charge when actually using a mana-charged item edited out would be not be possible anyway.

Dey

[Shadowmaster]

Read this thread please.

What makes me laugh' date=' in reflection of looking at the entire thread, is how this is a ridiculously minor issue, that is perfectly understandable (qraces/qclass/cabals being secret 'sects' if you like, that as such have their own skills that are meant to be hidden away from any not within that sect) yet everyone is getting uppity over it. [/quote']

You must not be reading the threads. No one wants that information revealed. What I am talking about is common class skills/spells effects and non-unique gear.

And I really don't see how having edited logs is going to drive down new players coming in.

If I go to the car showroom, and I want to buy a new car, do you think I am going to buy it if the salesman shows me everything, takes me for a testdrive and then says "I can't show you the trunk until you buy it"?

I'll stop arguing about this now since it is so upsetting to some of you.

[Deykari]

What is a spoiler about being able to post 100% of a non-quest class skills in a log rather then 95% like it is currently?

The really powerful skills/spells like mana charge and malform weapon, due to their power and what can be achieved with them, are left to a user's own experimentation and in-game research. What is so hard to understand about that?

Dey

[Kyzarius]

neither the ENTIRE POINT is that the person needs to make an invoker in try it to find out the benefits.

Charged staffs have MANY benefits, and managing the charged staff without blowing your own head up is one of the thrills behind playing an invoker. Thats the POINT. Not to mention out of the box solutions to charging "items" other than staves...one of the thing si enjoyed most about my first invoker was finding other things to charge and use, and it was awesome to discover some items that are EXCELLENT for this that many people probably dont know about.

Now, what fun is it to just read some essay that tells me every secret to charging staffs? wow, wheres the fun in that? everyone knows it...its common knowledge..nothing to explore, just the best mathamatical solution that all invokers should use...bleh.

The "code of Secrecy" in FL is what maintains the games mysticism. Heck i have played here off and on for three years and still have MUCH to discover. TO be honest, if everything was out there on some spoiler site..well..i doubt i would even still be here.

[Shadowmaster]

Thanks again!

The affects of having a fully mana-charged staff aren't edited out of PK logs. The actual specifics of the skill and how it works are to remain secretive and down to experimentation, but a PK log with the affects of mana-charge when actually using a mana-charged item edited out would be not be possible anyway.

Dey

Right so I get to see the effects of it, but the essay doesn't explain it. So you now see why a log is better then an essay. Thats twice you've proved my points while arguing with me. Thanks!

[Deykari]

If I go to the car showroom' date=' and I want to buy a new car, do you think I am going to buy it if the salesman shows me everything, takes me for a testdrive and then says "I can't show you the trunk until you buy it"?[/quote']

FL isn't a car showroom. The two are completely different things. When I buy a car, I expect to know everything about it as I am paying money for a product. When I come to start playing a MUD, I am coming to play a game that provides entertainment, and part of that entertainment is finding things in the game that I have to experiment with and find out for myself.

If I come to a MUD, the first thing I do is go and play it. Maybe look at a couple of PK logs. Let's say I see someone fighting a vamp. Just because I see certain skills edited out, and after reading the forum rules, I find out it is because they are a special race/class/cabal/super-skill such as malform/mana charge, how will that drive me away from the MUD?

Dey

[Deykari]

Right so I get to see the effects of it' date=' but the essay doesn't explain it. So you now see why a log is better then an essay. Thats twice you've proved my points while arguing with me. Thanks![/quote']

If I read a log and see something a little strange about an Invoker's casting, and made a connection to mana-charge, that still does not explain how I would use mana-charge to get my spells to work in that state or if there any other affects that are not shown visibly in the PK log.

So, the log may show the obvious affects of a skill. Does that therefore mean that everybody should know the ins and outs of mana-charge? Again, they are supposed to be secretive because they are powerful skills that players should work out themselves. It is impossible to edit out one of the obvious major affects mana charge has, so it is left in. Doesn't reveal anything more about the skill other than that.

Dey

EDIT: As for the qrace/qclass/cabal comment? Sorry, didn't know you weren't talking about them. But I still think the same applies for the non-qrace/qclass/cabal skills that warrant that type of censoring, like malform/mana charge.

[Questioner]

Just to point out something you all "veteran" players are overlooking...there are things mentioned in this thread that I never knew until now. You complain that we need to keep the secrets secret? Well thxs for the discussion! Plus I knwo exactly what every skill spell attack does, the only thing that matters is knowing equip location, areas, speed, and plain guts and luck. it doesn't matter what you know. I know all the qclass and qrace special stuff...but am I a hardcore pker? Hells no. I get pked even today. Knowing cabal skills won't ruin any fun. The only fun is being able to achieve and get those skills and titles.

[Questioner]

On a side note about malforms...even if you know about the special affects of mals you won't be able to get them if you can't get it yourself through skill.

[Shadowmaster]

Bingo!

On a side note about malforms...even if you know about the special affects of mals you won't be able to get them if you can't get it yourself through skill.

This is 100% true. Information makes no one overpowered. It is what they do with it that changes things.

The reason people don't want you to know stuff that they do, is because they know it and you don't. Making them have an advantage in pk. It isn't hard to understand their logic, just hard to agree with it.

[Belegriel]

This is 100% true. Information makes no one overpowered. It is what they do with it that changes things.

The reason people don't want you to know stuff that they do, is because they know it and you don't. Making them have an advantage in pk. It isn't hard to understand their logic, just hard to agree with it.

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I know just about all your cabal skills/spells and your qrace spells/skills and I get killed on a daily basis in PK. And I've been here since about day 10....

[Questioner]

It is nice to know I ain't alone.

[Shadowmaster]

Are you delusional?

That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. I know just about all your cabal skills/spells and your qrace spells/skills and I get killed on a daily basis in PK. And I've been here since about day 10....

Right so knowing this information changes nothing. You choose not to act on what you know, or make poor tactical choices despite knowing it. Again, knowing this information doesn't change PK, acting on what you know does.

What I should have said to be more clear is "They don't want you to know it, because if you did, you might act on it, reducing their advantage in PK".

Sorry for not being more detailed.

[Chayesh]

This is a minor issue that is not up for discussion. This administration is continuing the policies that have been in effect for several IMM administrations.

PK logs will continue to be edited before being posted. The game is meant to be experienced firsthand, as this is the best way to learn and improve.

FIN

[Belegriel]

You don't need to worry about being more detailed, you need to worry about being in denial b/c the holy grail of PK isn't in the information you might or might not learn from reading a log.

As it is, the point is moot. We aren't changing policy to include anything more in logs. Sorry you don't agree with it, but thats the point.

[Shadowmaster]

Fair enough.

This is a minor issue that is not up for discussion. This administration is continuing the policies that have been in effect for several IMM administrations.

PK logs will continue to be edited before being posted. The game is meant to be experienced firsthand, as this is the best way to learn and improve.

FIN

Fair enough. In parting, may I inquire, if I were to post, on my non-official site, information that details everything you are obscuring, will you then allow this stuff to be posted?

[WarriorCleric]

If they find out it's you, don't expect to be around long.

WC

[Tom]

Hence the "in parting."

[Imoutgoodbye]

Fair enough. In parting' date=' may I inquire, if I were to post, on my non-official site, information that details everything you are obscuring, will you then allow this stuff to be posted?[/quote']

I will say that this IS the apitomy of crying and whining and "If I don't get what I want, this is what I'm going to do".

You have no strong arm here. What you have is a game you want to play and don't want to spend the time learning.

I've been here just over five years. I've had three pinns and several hundred hours worth of characters. However, this is a game and at times I've had to put it aside. It sounds to me like you need to remember this is a game. Go blow some steam off somewhere.

You want to learn the finer points? Know what those "special" abilities are? Play them. Fight against them. I learned almost everything I needed to know within my first eight months here. And you'll never learn everything. Possible to learn everything? Yes, until changes are implemented. Like any other part of life should be, never stop learning because you'll never know everything.

[Shadowmaster]

Wake up and smell the roses.

You want to learn the finer points? Know what those "special" abilities are? Play them. Fight against them.

You need to recognize that I am not whining about this because I don't want to learn, but rather trying to educate you about how new players (One of whom I recommended the MUD to who said: "Why do I want to play a MUD that is so censored they edit out normal class skills in logs") might actually view things when coming here for the first time. This thread wasn't intended to be for my benefit, but rather, for the benefit of potential new players.

All that said, at this point, I don't really care to waste even another moment arguing with your or anyone else about a trivial matter on the forums of a middle-of-the-pack product in a market that is dying.

Good luck with everything.

[Deykari]

One of whom I recommended the MUD to who said: "Why do I want to play a MUD that is so censored they edit out normal class skills in logs".

Why/how would a new player recently recommended to the MUD know that a certain skill that had been censored out, was a normal class skill?

Why is that an exagerration, when there are only a small handful of skills that aren't qrace/qclass/cabal/applied for/tattoo/whatever that are edited out?

Why would a new player to a MUD judge the MUD by how they censor logs? On the contrary, one of the things that kept me playing here from the start was the fact that you had to put some effort in to find out what certain things did.

Enjoy Counter-strike.

Dey

[corpsestomp]

All that said, at this point, I don't really care to waste even another moment arguing with your or anyone else about a trivial matter on the forums of a middle-of-the-pack product in a market that is dying.

Thanks!

And in case I wasn't 'detailed' enough. Thank you for not wasting another moment of our time with your arguments or flames against something that a majority of us consider a fantastic game to play.

[Raargant]

I believe this thread has run it's course.