Fiere Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I always like new changes. The B-man's done us a good one, I think. Especially with the warrior shield expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Yeah...good to see that blademasters got toned a little. It worried me when I noticed Balinor could PK with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I don't approve of the new blademaster changes, personally. After playing Lerris, a halfling, and often having difficulty killing an ELF invoker (the combination that a halfer blm should most easily beat), even with elf expertise, I think it's quite clear that blademasters don't really need toning. Much like monks, they are a class that requires absolute preperation and timing. I think the only change that should have been made to blademasters would be to disallow halflings from playing them. I'll admit (from experience x3) that halfling blademasters are very powerful, especially when aligned with the appropriate cabal and subcabal choices. Granted, without playing a blademaster currently, I can't know what the changes are. But it's somewhat irrelevant, because blademasters (as a class) were PERFECT exactly the way they were. Every blademaster had one race they could, with the right skill + gear, beat with ease. They also had two races (their own race and one other) that they could beat with little to moderate difficulty. Everything else was fair game, and as a very specialized class, experienced players will (as always) fare better than less experienced players. In short, I feel I had a hand in this change, and I regret it. Toning blademasters can't lead anywhere good, because they weren't broken to begin with. And Forsaken, maybe you shouldn't short people on the improvement they've made. I realize Balinor is, along with Deykari, the laughing stock of the forum. But maybe you should look up Grom's record sometime. It's just as good (if not better) than Taeim's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Forsaken Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Sorry Bali...didn't mean to hurt your feelers... But you have to realize, we laugh with you, not at you. You have actually gotten a LOT better than what we give you credit for. Dey on the other hand...meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Evangelion is Balinor? I THOUGHT I felt the goober vibe from him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Did I say I toned BM's down? Critical heart was far, far too strong. -25 spell levels made it so a caster was literally powerless as long as it was on. It is still a powerful ability, but no longer an instant "I win" ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Critical heart was far' date=' far too strong. -25 spell levels made it so a caster was literally powerless as long as it was on.[/quote'] Always thought that myself, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hegemon Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 No, I'm sorry but no. The Critical Heart changes were needed, absolutely. I'm not sure what else has been "toned", but it can only be good news for the pbase. And anyone who thinks that Blademasters were "perfect as they were" is speaking from the point of view of that class, not as an objective player. Good job, B. The TOP THREE THINGS on my "axe grinding list" were: 1. Monks. 2. DKs. 3. Blademasters. And they've all been addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 New top 1: Berserkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Yeah I was also very happy about the blademaster toning and the shield expertise thing. It balances the game out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Blademaster toning was long overdone, in the critical heart strike department. -25 was absolute overkill. This change seriously has the complete and utter backing and support of all the IMM's, who've wanted it for a long time now. Stupid mage-nullifying thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb5679 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Agreed, though I don't know how the blademasters got toned in the other way, the critical strike for the heart was just insane. If you were a drow/duerg shaman and they had your anatomy, you had 0 chance against them. Sure you can say thats the point of mastering their anatomy since you can't do that to everyone, but the -25 spelllvl was just sickening effectively ruining anyone that chose that race and a mage class. Also, its not like a blademaster needed to have your anatomy mastered to kick any butt either so...this was definately a good change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Donkey Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Agreed, if only crit heart was changed it was definately enough to make them a bit more vulnerable to mage classes. Last one I fought with a mage hit my heart and from there on out I was just running for my life. It wears off, immediately it happens again. Made fighting a blm with a mage completely pointless. Great change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I will defend blademasters for two reasons: 1. Blademasters are a pain in the arse to train and anats can take a while if no one is friendly enough to help you practice the anat. Or findng someone in your pk range to attack. 2. I hate shamans....period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Blademasters will still lay waste to mages they have mastery/anatomy in. It just won't be as ridiculously lopsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I have logs from Lerris of Suunmar landing minister, and hitting some heavy path damage, etc., while still under the affects of critical heart. Again, like I said, I don't know what (if any) other changes were made. I suppose if crit heart was the only thing changed, I can live with it (not that I have any other choice:p ). Re Hegemon: I have had almost every class at pinnacle, and been in almost every cabal. I have fought blademasters with most of these. I have also had three blademasters (not all halflings) at pinn, and in different cabals. I think I can safely speak from both the view of the class itself, and the view of the other class, when I say I think they were fine the way they were. Again, as always, the skill of the few tends to force toning to allow for the lack thereof of the many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random_clown Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 With the blademaster I had at 50, I had no trouble taking out casters. Even with no specialty in their anatomy. With all that is unlocked at higher specialization, it would have been a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 With the blademaster I had at 50' date=' I had no trouble taking out casters. Even with no specialty in their anatomy. With all that is unlocked at higher specialization, it would have been a joke.[/quote'] Agreed, this was a good change, thank you Behrens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 No, Evangelion, not really. The critical heart strike's severity has been in line for a tonedown long, long before your characters were rolled. Remember that currently, intention and actual coding can often have a major delay between the two. In other words, to put it bluntly, there was no one player or character with 'skill' that made the IMM staff decide to tone down the effects of heart strike. It was toned down because it has been regarded for a long time as excessively strong, and Irumeru finally found the time to change that. Thinking otherwise is simple hubris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 The term hubris doesn't really apply here. Never once did I say that I alone caused the change, or anything close to it. I said I felt I might have had something to do with it, having played a number of blademasters who did relatively well. That's not overbearing pride - that's a valid assumption, for one who isn't privy to the inner circle of immortal dealings and discussions. Thank you for explaining that it was a planned change, and didn't just recently get decided on. But again, what I said wasn't hubris, but rather a logical assumption. Use your vocabulary for good, not evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 No, Evangelion, not really. The critical heart strike's severity has been in line for a tonedown long, long before your characters were rolled. Remember that currently, intention and actual coding can often have a major delay between the two. In other words, to put it bluntly, there was no one player or character with 'skill' that made the IMM staff decide to tone down the effects of heart strike. It was toned down because it has been regarded for a long time as excessively strong, and Irumeru finally found the time to change that. Thinking otherwise is simple hubris. Translation: No, Evangelion, you're not that special. ^_~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 A couple things: 1. The reason clerics landed minister with spellbane on them was a seperate bug that made minister save against your breath saves. (You ask what they are, they don't exist in FL right now, so nobody had any) That bug has also been fixed. 2. Spellbane is still a good ability. It just isn't an overpowered ability. 3. There have been some tone UPs as well. Watching blademasters, I noticed that most of them used two or three stances, so I slightly improved some of the less-used stances. Kairishi is the next one that will be improved, because nobody EVER uses it. In this, I had to reduce the most popular stances in power slightly, but I doubt if anyone will notice it unless they run numbers on all of their fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 That reminds me, we really, really should've told people that minister has been fixed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 The only problem with Kairishi is that no one can figure out HOW to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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