Iron and Elves, Chemistry 101

[Celerity]

me=idiot

[jb5679]

You've got to be kidding. First of all, ironoxide simply is the chemical name of it; just because there is 'iron' in the name doesn't mean it is iron.

Just like how dihydrogen monoxide is not hydrogen, because it has the word hydrogen in it; it's just water.

Second of all, iron is an element. Oxygen is an element. Ironoxide is composed of both iron and oxygen. Why in the world would you claim that ironoxide is iron? Why not claim that it is oxygen? Both would be equally faulty.

Ironoxide is no more iron than it is oxygen, and water is no more oxygen than it is hydrogen. When elements combine to form a compound, they are no longer that element, period.

Jeeze. Learn a few things before trying to school others.

So your saying a mix of two elements do not elicit an allergic response to a part of the substance? I can refute that.

Of course, an absolute elemental allergy is quite rare and likely not possible for a person to survive, like I mentioned before, should they actually be allergic to iron they would not be able to transfer oxygen to their cells accordingly (if in real world example), but bleh, I've been drinking and don't wanna try and talk more.

[Celerity]

The only way for things to be chemically the same but physically different is if they are isotopes(different mass)...

This is why it is hard to get weapons-grade plutonium I think..can't sort it out chemically..

[jb5679]

Celerity finish thought, jb happy.

[Pali]

Think of it this way:

Na (Sodium) burns in water. Put it in H20, it'll catch on fire. NaCl (sodium chloride, aka table salt) doesn't burn in water.

[jb5679]

if you are actually allergic to an element and not a specific chemical compound, how will that not incur reactions every time you interact with an element in whatever fashion?

though I suppose, in further retrospect, possiblities allow for the reactivity of the allergy to be based on specific to the electron field around iron alone which would allow for no other chemical to bind with it should it be that way, which holds to the idea that, likely, all the iron -apparently- elves can't hold or wear is likely oxidized and mostly unreactive

[Dobson]

Oh my god....This has gone so down hill.

But Raar is wrong, Ironoxide would be classified as Iron because when you melt it down, the oxide goes away. :-D This is fun!

Also Hydrogen is why water bubbles can stay in the water on the side of your glass. So yes there is Hydrogen in water. Not that any human can be allergic to Hydrogen or Iron because both are required to live.

[Anithraril]

You are all wrong.

Elves are burned by iron because of magic.

Further FL Elves are burned by "Iron" because that is what the code says they are burned by.

[Dobson]

You are all wrong.

Elves are burned by iron because of magic.

Further FL Elves are burned by "Iron" because that is what the code says they are burned by.

Em yells stoutly "Burn cream here, get your burn cream!"

[Raargant]

Oh my god....This has gone so down hill.

But Raar is wrong, Ironoxide would be classified as Iron because when you melt it down, the oxide goes away. :-D This is fun!

Also Hydrogen is why water bubbles can stay in the water on the side of your glass. So yes there is Hydrogen in water. Not that any human can be allergic to Hydrogen or Iron because both are required to live.

Absolutely not. Again, your viewpoint is skewed. Why not say that ironoxide is oxygen because when you melt it down, the oxygen is released from the iron into the air, while the iron goes away?

Fact is, neither iron nor the oxygen goes away. The air is not 'goes away'. Nor is a metallic state, 'goes away'.

A compound is never, EVER, classified as an element. Period. Ask anyone with even a modicum of knowledge in chemistry. A compound is a combination of elements. It's completely incorrect to classify a compound by any one of its component elements. There IS hydrogen in water, and there IS oxygen in water, but you absolutely cannot classify water as hydrogen or oxygen. Just like you cannot classify rust, ironoxide, as iron or oxygen.

[jb5679]

Absolutely not. Again, your viewpoint is skewed. Why not say that ironoxide is oxygen because when you melt it down, the oxygen is released from the iron into the air, while the iron goes away?

Fact is, neither iron nor the oxygen goes away. The air is not 'goes away'. Nor is a metallic state, 'goes away'.

A compound is never, EVER, classified as an element. Period. Ask anyone with even a modicum of knowledge in chemistry. A compound is a combination of elements. It's completely incorrect to classify a compound by any one of its component elements. There IS hydrogen in water, and there IS oxygen in water, but you absolutely cannot classify water as hydrogen or oxygen. Just like you cannot classify rust, ironoxide, as iron or oxygen.

So, in your theory thurr, if someone is allergic to a basic element, say, hydrogen, he wouldnt have to worry cuz most hydrogen is inert with the single bonds between both atoms?

and...of course, an allergy isnt the element acting on the body, its the body acting on the body in a stupid extent to fight a benign object (see allergy)

Edit: What in the hell am I still doing up...

[MysticR]

Guys, we already settled this. The shield has a leader backside. The front of it is iron, or rust, if you will, and there are several layers of iron, but the very back layer is a layer of leather, with a leather strap, because face it, not everyone wants cold iron touching their skin when they are carrying the shield. Plus, leather would help deaden the vibrations from impact on the shield, so it is practical. Anything that zaps elves obviously has an iron handle or where ever they try to grip it is made of iron.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

elves aren't real.

[Raargant]

My part of the discussion wasn't about elves. It was about complete misrepresentation of what chemistry is

[Iusedtobesomebody]

chemistry isn't real.

[Dobson]

Okay, this is in the pride section now.

Let's take metal allergies shall we?

Gold, Silver and Platinum are untouchable to many people because of allergies. The body reacts to the electric balance created by them and cause anything from mild irritation to cardiac failure, depending on the severity of the reaction. Then there is sterling silver, which is is 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. But it makes a completely different compound. Where as some people CAN touch sterling silver and not silver, this is ONLY because of the coating around them.

Now rust

There are two different isotopes of iron ions, Fe2+ and Fe3+, thus causing two different possible iron oxide compounds. These two compounds are ferrous and ferric oxide, or iron (II) and iron (III) oxide. All of which retain the properties of IRON. Even though no large source of iron is needed for rust which can be created by mixing water, soil and rock, there is enough iron in the soil to produce the rust.

[BigMac]

it's got a rubber handle

[Raargant]

Nope. Sorry. FeO does contain the element Fe, iron, yes, and does remain properties of iron.

That being said, FeO is not iron. And that's all there is to it. At absolute best, you can argue that ironoxide remains enough chemical properties of iron to still be allergic to elves, but that is completely unprovable...because elves don't exist.

Your original assertion, this:

rust= iron for those of you who slept through chemistry

That iron oxide is iron, is absolutely, categorically, false.

[BigMac]

Nope. Sorry. FeO does contain the element Fe, iron, yes, and does remain properties of iron.

That being said, FeO is not iron. And that's all there is to it. At absolute best, you can argue that ironoxide remains enough chemical properties of iron to still be allergic to elves, but that is completely unprovable...because elves don't exist.

Your original assertion, this:

That iron oxide is iron, is absolutely, categorically, false.

can i get a "omg wtf pwnzor i rox ur sawx bizzle"?

[Dobson]

Nope. Sorry. FeO does contain the element Fe, iron, yes, and does remain properties of iron.

That being said, FeO is not iron. And that's all there is to it. At absolute best, you can argue that ironoxide remains enough chemical properties of iron to still be allergic to elves, but that is completely unprovable...because elves don't exist.

Your original assertion, this:

That iron oxide is iron, is absolutely, categorically, false.

Dude, this has had me laughing all freaking day. All I have to say is let's call it a draw and say we both win, or do I have to go into how my original thought was to just say that rust is enough like iron for the burning sensation all elves feel when they are around it after drinking too much.

[BigMac]

I think it's time for you to make like Al Gore and admit defeat.

[Dobson]

Let's put this in the "lock box"

[Raargant]

Your original thought was irrelevant, because you have no way to prove what your original thought was at all; for all I know, you might've originally thought iron was some sort of beer. The only substantive thing we have is your post, which is this:

rust= iron for those of you who slept through chemistry

Which is wrong

Therefore, no draw.

I will, however, accept a gracious admission of defeat that you simply "did not express yourself and your position clearly enough."

[Lexi]

What about steel? I mean, in some fantasy literature, elves can't stand steel either - because of the iron in it. Are people with iron allergies also allergic to steel?

[dragonforger17]

nickle

i am allergic to nickel. so everytime i touch a belt or anything with nickel on it it breaks out. now all i have to say is take you god damn shield to the jeweler and get it coated to stop that **** thats what i did for my silver necklace which im allegic to. nows theirs jewelers in the game and the shield game from a guy, elf, or someone allergic to iron that had it coated their everyone happy. lol.