Top Ten Things that are "Wrong" with FL

[Hegemon]

In no way is this a SINISTER JAB at anyone. This is supposed to be a constructive deconstruction of the system as best as I understand it.

There will be punks who derail/take over this thread.

Respond to this post, not Johnny Bad@ss who wants to be a hero.

10. Gold. It's too time consuming to come by FOR WHAT IT IS (Key words), which is a means to buy comsumables or place (mostly) lameass bounties which have their place on the list.

9. Bounties. Place your cheapass 10k/Double Plated with the Elemental Bracelet Twist price on someone's head, and you too can have every punk in Aabahran after the guy that looked at you funny. I mean honestly, Mess will collect that bounty, but should the Divine Headhunter have to hunt you for a mere pittence? Naw.

8. Rolling. Why not just give everyone max rolling stats? I honestly don't see a downside, anyone that wants them will get them after taking the time to get them. Newbs are #$%$ed because they will take the first/second roll they get. We ALL make rolling triggers for a reason, why should we? Absurd.

7. Bank Fees. They rape you. They rape you so bad you long for the days that you get the old 1.50$ charge on your bank card for ANY AND ALL transactions. If you DON'T get those fees with your bank, and you are in Canada, please give me a message. This probably ties in with "Gold". Blame me for that.

6. Cabal Points. Nonsense. A SECONDARY economy. Yes, you redeem them for useful things, but I mean come on. They are based essentially on the number of hours to grind away (usually) to get to that "V" which is all encompassing in and of itself. Yes, you get them from _____ and _____ing your ____ _____, sure. Not much though. It only creates a larger divide between the haves and the have nots.

5. Ranking. Okay, sure. It is a game that goes from 1-50. But why does it have to take so much time? The "elite" players (myself included) can do it pretty damn fast, but what about the rest? What about poor Newbie McNewberson, or Casual Hasafamily? Does it really need to take that much time? Would jacking up the xp-rate (looks like "X-Pirate, it's not though") really hurt the game that much? Many times, it's damn hard to find a group, and there are ALWAYS level 30 Bad@#$es out there, or even beyond, who interrupt your hunt. I mean, people are going to get there, it's a given. No need to hand it to them, but maybe a little boost?

4. Request Times. Okay, so I'm wandering around, not much on the go, I want a Shiny (Item Edited), so I sit down with the mob and have a few beers, smoke a few (item edited), maybe ask him if he can part with (item edited).Sure, that's great. But does it really need to take so damn long? That's really my main problem with the thing. You are helpless there, and should some Evil Fire Giant walk by and see you there, stop by, give you a few love taps (bashes) that's it. Game over. You have been KILLED!

3. Bash. Bash should not be THE determining factor. Bash should not be the only command you neet to enter. Bash should not be the thing you do while you wait for sanc to fall so you can pwn all n00bs. There are counters, but they are either class/race based or ____. If they are class or race based, then you are likely dealing with another giant sized melee or a caster. Drow Warrior SHOULD have a chance against Ogre Warrior because of his (or her, I'm PC yes you heard me Sue) natural uber dex. But...what happens is bash bash bash dead. Absurd.

2. There are no points for second best. (No Entry) *Top Gun Reference*

1. The Clan/Cabal system.

Where do I begin. Okay, so I'm playing for awhile. I like the game, it's good stuff. Not quite Final Fantasy 3 (or whatever it is overseas) but it's cool. So I notice these guys with the neat flags and cool powers. Now, I figure I want to join one of these things because, hey, that's where the action is. So okay, I join a Clan. Now, I have to be at the whim of an immortal who may or may not be kicking/active, I get my promotions within the clan based upon a criteria which is entirely arbitrary. Okay, that's fine. Hey, look, ______ has decided that I'm a good fit for _____ cabal. Great Excellent! So now I put in __ Hours per promotion, up to "V", and hey look, I need the nod from up high to get to Trusted. Then to Elder. Then Leader. Now, I don't know if I was dropped on the head, but I think that players make the game, so players should have if not THE say then at least MORE say in who goes where, and why. The staff says it was a terrible place when players had the run of the cabals, but honestly I can't imagine it being any worse than (there are no words, fill it in yourself) system where players are told repeatedly that they need the guidance of people who may or may not be there to monitor the activities of the cabal they are the imms of. ("They are imms of" is terrible English. my apologies)

Before you jump up and say that it's all well and good, I'll tell you that I've seen huge droughts in the system, and I've seen entire cabals neglected at the same time other cabals get huge play. No specifics, dear reader. I'm not a mudslinger. To be honest, I was thinking of just scrapping this section just because it would generate the most nonsense on the forum. But any list wouldn't be complete without mentioning the #1 fault in the game as I see it. I haven't really even been burned that badly by the current system, I simply H.A.T.E I.T P.A.S.S.I.O.N.A.T.E.l.Y (sp?)

Jeebus, that went on for awhile. I can see how I may be in danger of being misunderstood. But in my defense, I didn't set out to so forcefully "slam" my Number One pick.

It just came out that way.

You know me. I'm not a griefer. Is there something there?

Discuss.

[CruelEdict]

Not the worst post I have seen. To be honest, you make plenty of good points. The game, as it stands, is just too damn hard for anyone but the absolute most determined. Not that I want any of the craziness that went with 2.0, but there must be a happy medium between 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. Because right now, its extremely hard to commit to a character and make it to 50 if you don't have endless hours to grind away.

A lot of those suggesstions are good, though I think 10, 7, 6 and 4 are rather trivial and fine as is. The Clan/Cabal thing, though, is spot on! Yes, so it was easy when it was player run, but now its too hard. As was said, it should be up to the players a bit more.

Just my thoughts.

[Fiere]

Never found getting gold to be much of a problem, but I'm not one of those people that needs 300k+ to be happy.

[ajwetton]

I agree I have never had problems with gold, there are several things that sell very well and are very easy to obtain.

I do agree about bounties, it seems thats the way I mostly die is because someone collects a bounty put on my head. and its usually to something like assassinate.

Why roll? well its something that makes you sacrifice things starting out, no body starts out perfect, sometimes yes you can max stats in creation counting the 3 u get in the arena but in my opinion its a personal RP character growth type thing. and not everyone uses triggers, i played for like 3 years before doing rolling triggers.

Bank fees are only like 10% so if you take out 100,000 its like 10k, thats not that bad considering how well somethings sell.

I don't think alot of people get Cp's from just grinding hours, you can get them a hundred diff ways(exadurating) Some i would name but i am not sure if they can be discussed.

Ranking doesn't take that long and neither does fully training a character with the nescessary skills needed to survive, yes it takes newbs longer because they are new, its a learning process, the would learn alot less if they were near instantly put up at 50 with all those spells and skills. the experienced players would get more from this than the newbs.

Request times vary from item to item, if its a good item it'll take longer Mithril takes about a tick, its the rares that take longer, and if your worried about being jumped, prepare for a fight before you request, use ur items before you request so your not sitting there with your pants around your ankles.

Bash is no where near the determinging skill, bash and trip are only valid if said classes are un-prepared and those without prot shield yes it can make a difference but depending on your warrior lore if a warrior there are much better skills out there.

There shouldn't be points for second best, FL just like the real world is a dogie dog world.

I like this system but it does have its faults, and you make valid points, though I do think it gives some the chance to aid and to show their RP about said faction with a greater ease than the old system. I'm really not up for finishing my point of view on this point so i'll just end here.

You do make some valid points, most as it shows I don't agree with but thats life. Not a slam to you in anyway, just posting a different point of view.

[Fiere]

Yeah, bash is the main one I'd disagree with. Even for non mage classes there's ways to get around it.

[Hegemon]

No 2 was supposed to be about consumables. Idiot that I am, I ate it up with a Top Gun reference. SMOOOOOOOTHHHHH.

Also, for the record, there is no venom AT ALL in my post, 'nor is there any offense taken with ANY post which disagrees with mine. That's idiotic. I think one thing, you think another, so you are a #$$%?

Absurd. The more you tear it apart, the more actual worth is in both posts. Beyond Johnny B@d @#$ (my generic term for forum trolls) and his useless and derailing posts, I welcome people talking about my thoughts and ideas because it contributes rather than Balinorizes....it..

And now, I've made it a verb.

EDIT STICK TO THE TOPIC. I SEE ONE POST ABOUT HOW WE NEED TO SLAM BALI BECAUSE I DID IT I'LL KNOW THERE WAS

*cough*

There was no point at all.

[L-A]

Ranking, rolling, playtimes, cps and clan/cabal based points:

If something is to be worth something then it shoudn't be easy to get. Its that simple. If you want any of those they can be gotten but you have to put some effort in - sometimes small, sometimes large. I don't see this as an issue and I will never again be ta 6 hour a day player. Yes, the game belongs to those who play the most/are most committed - but that is like everything in life.

Bash:

There is more to is than your size - in fact, it can be made useless by anyone. Its not the determining factor in a fight at lvl 50 - if you find that it is, its your 'PK-skill' not the 'bash-skill' ( ) that is at fault.

Gold:

There have been some threads about melee balance and this affects that a lot. It was made harder to get by Viri long ago (troll village change). Its not hard to get, but yes, it can be a pain as you have to commit hour to it. I don't know if its good or bad - there should be some time involved. Perhaps if shopkeepers had infinite gold but couldn't have it looted......

Consumables:

Goes back ot melee balance (and to some degree gold) - lots of other threads on that. Hard one for me to call as there its most likely a complex act keeping melee vs mage balanced. Behrens or Viri are more likely to be able to shed some EDUCATED opinions on this.

[Deykari]

I agree with the request comments. Although I love the request system, and it can definately be a lot more useful than being an evil and having to kill the mob in question, you are helpless for X amount of hours, hp/mana slow draining away, maybe spells and skills dropping (ones that may be essential to survival). The difference here, is that when you fight a mob for EQ, you have access to all of your commands. Who. Where. Flee & sleep in some cases, to battle the mob at your own pace so you aren't leaving yourself vulnerable with 30hp. You can put skill/spells back up as they fall. If you're requesting a high-level rare, that's not the case.

So someone can come in, see you requesting, prepare themselves and attack you, whilst you lose the item you've been waiting X hours for already, and get attacked whilst already drained and possibly with the calm affect depending on if the item is rare or not.

What I propose (feel free to disagree) is allowing you to keep the fundemental 'informative' commands whilst you request. Who, where, score, those type of things that don't directly order your character to do anything. Then also, allow your character to 'break' from the request. This means that you can keep watch for potential predators whilst requesting, very much like a neut/evil could whilst attacking a mob. Of course, there would be need to be a penalty for this. So, you would be calmed for the length of time (at the same intensity) that you would normally be (assuming you're requesting a rare). To prevent you being able to just take flight easily and to stop you just jumping straight into battle, you would also suffer a momentary lag period, and perhaps the drain affect for a couple of ticks. The item would also be destroyed, much like if you were interrupted whilst requesting anyway.

This still leaves you vulnerable, as whilst requesting you can't cast/use skills. But you can keep an eye out for people who may come for you, and act accordingly at the cost of penalties.

Any thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea? Bad enough to warrant my banning and instant condeathing of all characters?

Dey

[Pali]

10. My only wish would be to figure out a way for shopkeepers to not run out of money so easily... if it's complicated to code them as having infinite gold yet not have it lootable, how about have them resupply in gold every night while the shop's closed? Other than that, I find gold very easy to gather required amounts of, particularly as a melee.

9. I'm not entirely happy with the current incarnation of the bounty system, but until I can think up something better, I'd prefer what we have to no bounties at all.

8. I see rolling as an investment into your character. Yeah, you might have a trigger doing the rolling, but even a trigger takes TIME. You need to sit there, waiting for it to do it. The longer you spend rolling a char, the more time you've got sunk into it before you've even started playing. Plus, it's a tradition from pen and paper RPGs.

7. I agree with the previous point that 10% is not that bad... though perhaps lower it a little bit? It's annoying at times.

6. They also provide motivation to go out and actually kill other cabal members. You get way more CPs from that than per tick.

5. Completely against this. I do not want newbs getting to 50 without having any sort of preparation for it, because they will get there, be slaughtered, get pissed, and leave. I'd rather they spend time in their 30s and 40s fighting for their life, finding eq locations, etc.

4. I'd like request to be changed to allow you to use where and allow you to come out of it. Coming out of it would still blow the eq and calm you, but it would allow you a chance to live if you noticed some guy coming. The downsides to requesting are meant to balance it for the fact that it's otherwise effort-less eq-gathering, but at least when you're fighting a big mob you can keep an eye on the area and quaff a recall if you have to. EDIT: Heh, Dey beat me to this. His post is basically my thoughts on requesting in more detail.

3. Bash isn't the determining factor at 50. Ever. It's one of many, many factors.

2. Obviously.

1. Um... since when do cabals not have any player voting? IMMs handle them when there aren't enough people in the cabal to handle the voting process, but when there are, I see the player voting being the main impact on cabal promotions and the like. It was 1.0 where cabal spots were entirely IMM-appointed, except for Conclave of course, which was the trial run on purely player-run cabals and failed... but I digress. Players have an impact in cabal promotions and behavior. Look at what Martineius did to Tribunal a while back, for instance. Perfectly possible for someone to rework a cabal like that again.

[Raargant]

Regarding the issue of gold, gold is of no problem at all. There are multiple mobs in the game that are easily killed by any rank 50 (and I do mean any, and easily; this goes for even faerie bards) that allow one to gather large amounts of gold (20-30k per trip or so in one of the better areas).

In addition, the mobs which deal in vital consumables such as flight, detect invis, etc., are also all very killable, and there are many, many sources of non-paid for sanc, obviously.

In essence (and this is coming from having recently played a melee character), gold should never, ever be important to your character unless you are fighting shamans a lot, in which case, temple healers will cost you money. For my own character from just some time ago, 50,000 gold, wisely used or saved while combined with judicious mob-killing, is all I ever needed in the bank to keep myself fully stocked with whatever I needed.

I'll take a look at the rest later. I do feel that I agree to a large extent with the problems in the current request system.

[Deykari]

I agree with Raar. My bank accounts always seem to stay at a steady level of between 50k - 150k gold, I withdraw as I need for supplies, and continue doing so, but the amount of gold I get through just PK, mob fighting and the like gradually builds it back up. This is one of the reasons why I very often take the time to help people at 42-49 rank up with my pinns. A solid few rounds of ranking can give you a nice chunk of gold, and you can even tell the party that you will not be splitting the gold gained, as a term of you agreeing to help them.

Dey

[Behrens]

In no way is this a SINISTER JAB at anyone. This is supposed to be a constructive deconstruction of the system as best as I understand it.

There will be punks who derail/take over this thread.

Respond to this post, not Johnny Bad@ss who wants to be a hero.

Do I get to be Johnny Badass? Wait, is that a good or a bad thing?

10. Gold. It's too time consuming to come by FOR WHAT IT IS (Key words)' date=' which is a means to buy comsumables or place (mostly) lameass bounties which have their place on the list.[/quote']

My impression of the game right now from my latest mort and snooping you guys is that gold is just about right. In 1.0 it was WAY too easy to come by, to the point that everyone had hundreds of thousands, even millions of gold.

And yes, I'm playing a melee.

9. Bounties. Place your cheapass 10k/Double Plated with the Elemental Bracelet Twist price on someone's head' date=' and you too can have every punk in Aabahran after the guy that looked at you funny. I mean honestly, Mess will collect that bounty, but should the Divine Headhunter have to hunt you for a mere pittence? Naw.[/quote']

This is something that Syndicate have to take care of themselves. If they stop chasing after 10k bounties, they'll stop being placed. Messalantha can RP "I don't chase bounty hunters that aren't top10/top3" if she wants (and Malanith approves). The system isn't perfect, but right now it's pretty damned good.

8. Rolling. Why not just give everyone max rolling stats? I honestly don't see a downside' date=' anyone that wants them will get them after taking the time to get them. Newbs are #$%$ed because they will take the first/second roll they get. We ALL make rolling triggers for a reason, why should we? Absurd.[/quote']

I didn't take the first/second roll when I was a newbie. We roll for the same reason that you do anything. More effort into a character means more dedication to that character. If we handed you a 50 whenever you wanted one we'd have Halloween Madness with RP. I don't want the MUD to become that.

7. Bank Fees. They rape you. They rape you so bad you long for the days that you get the old 1.50$ charge on your bank card for ANY AND ALL transactions. If you DON'T get those fees with your bank' date=' and you are in Canada, please give me a message. This probably ties in with "Gold". Blame me for that.[/quote']

Don't use the bank, or take the perk that prevents bank fees. This does tie into gold, and it's just the way it is.

6. Cabal Points. Nonsense. A SECONDARY economy. Yes' date=' you redeem them for useful things, but I mean come on. They are based essentially on the number of hours to grind away (usually) to get to that "V" which is all encompassing in and of itself. Yes, you get them from _____ and _____ing your ____ _____, sure. Not much though. It only creates a larger divide between the haves and the have nots.[/quote']

Cabal points are based on far more than hours, and if you're only getting them from hours, you're going to be out within 15 minutes of real cabal warfare.

5. Ranking. Okay' date=' sure. It is a game that goes from 1-50. But why does it have to take so much time? The "elite" players (myself included) can do it pretty damn fast, but what about the rest? What about poor Newbie McNewberson, or Casual Hasafamily? Does it really need to take that much time? Would jacking up the xp-rate (looks like "X-Pirate, it's not though") really hurt the game that much? Many times, it's damn hard to find a group, and there are ALWAYS level 30 Bad@#$es out there, or even beyond, who interrupt your hunt. I mean, people are going to get there, it's a given. No need to hand it to them, but maybe a little boost?[/quote']

The ranking system hasn't changed since I was a newbie, and frankly, the slow leveling is what kept me in the game. I RPed, enjoyed my time, and slowly moved up the ranks. Had I entered Myrek's PK range within two days of finding the game, I would've gotten frustrated and quit. But since I had really grown attached to my character, I fought through, and learned how to fight people.

4. Request Times. Okay' date=' so I'm wandering around, not much on the go, I want a Shiny (Item Edited), so I sit down with the mob and have a few beers, smoke a few (item edited), maybe ask him if he can part with (item edited).Sure, that's great. But does it really need to take so damn long? That's really my main problem with the thing. You are helpless there, and should some Evil Fire Giant walk by and see you there, stop by, give you a few love taps (bashes) that's it. Game over. You have been KILLED! [/quote']

I'll look into request time, but it's meant to be how goodies take risks for their equipment. You can't even imagine how many times with one of my warriors/zerks I came across an evil fighting the red dragon/tainted golems, and bash/slamlocked them into the easiest PK ever. A goody doesn't lose ghost status, and can easily get a full set of mithril and full health before he's ever out of ghost.

3. Bash. Bash should not be THE determining factor. Bash should not be the only command you neet to enter. Bash should not be the thing you do while you wait for sanc to fall so you can pwn all n00bs. There are counters' date=' but they are either class/race based or ____. If they are class or race based, then you are likely dealing with another giant sized melee or a caster. Drow Warrior SHOULD have a chance against Ogre Warrior because of his (or her, I'm PC yes you heard me Sue) natural uber dex. But...what happens is bash bash bash dead. Absurd. [/quote']

I've seen Drow Warriors beat Ogre Warriors. However, I'll admit it isn't the easiest thing in the game. Lag is, and always has been, one of the most important issues in the game, and inducing lag is a critical way to win battles.

2. There are no points for second best. (No Entry) *Top Gun Reference*

You mentioned this was meant to be about consumables? Not sure what to make of this. Consumables are something that I think should be required, but I'm not sure if I want to make easier. This will be brought up before the staff.

1. The Clan/Cabal system.

Where do I begin. Okay, so I'm playing for awhile. I like the game, it's good stuff. Not quite Final Fantasy 3 (or whatever it is overseas) but it's cool. So I notice these guys with the neat flags and cool powers. Now, I figure I want to join one of these things because, hey, that's where the action is. So okay, I join a Clan. Now, I have to be at the whim of an immortal who may or may not be kicking/active, I get my promotions within the clan based upon a criteria which is entirely arbitrary. Okay, that's fine. Hey, look, ______ has decided that I'm a good fit for _____ cabal. Great Excellent! So now I put in __ Hours per promotion, up to "V", and hey look, I need the nod from up high to get to Trusted. Then to Elder. Then Leader. Now, I don't know if I was dropped on the head, but I think that players make the game, so players should have if not THE say then at least MORE say in who goes where, and why. The staff says it was a terrible place when players had the run of the cabals, but honestly I can't imagine it being any worse than (there are no words, fill it in yourself) system where players are told repeatedly that they need the guidance of people who may or may not be there to monitor the activities of the cabal they are the imms of. ("They are imms of" is terrible English. my apologies)

Before you jump up and say that it's all well and good, I'll tell you that I've seen huge droughts in the system, and I've seen entire cabals neglected at the same time other cabals get huge play. No specifics, dear reader. I'm not a mudslinger. To be honest, I was thinking of just scrapping this section just because it would generate the most nonsense on the forum. But any list wouldn't be complete without mentioning the #1 fault in the game as I see it. I haven't really even been burned that badly by the current system, I simply H.A.T.E I.T P.A.S.S.I.O.N.A.T.E.l.Y (sp?)

Jeebus, that went on for awhile. I can see how I may be in danger of being misunderstood. But in my defense, I didn't set out to so forcefully "slam" my Number One pick.

It just came out that way.

You know me. I'm not a griefer. Is there something there?

Discuss.

I know you're not a griefer, and that's why I addressed your problems point-by-point. I have always wanted a way to express RP without the clan/cabal system, which is why I encourage player-made clans. There were two cabal systems that were tried. The 1.0 system was entirely IMM run. You think we've seen droughts in this system (and we have)? 1.0 had times that cabals were literally non-EXISTANT. I was the only justice as my first character, a paladin, for two-three weeks because Vaelinn had left and nobody cared to fix the problem. I must've made half the playerbase wanted or outlaw, and because I was a newbie who got stomped, nobody cared. Then Gorthae came back, and everyone suddenly remembered what fear of the law was.

The 2.0 system was entirely player run, and everyone hated it, because it became VERY clique very fast. There were entire cabals that were controlled by groups of people on IM.

What we've got now is a balance. I had real life kick me in the rear, and I had to take a break, but I'm back, and I'm doing everything I can to make sure that each cabal has an active, energetic IMM who is driven to insure that his (or her) cabal does well. You've seen two new additions to our IMMstaff because of that, and as long as the playerbase keeps growing, you'll keep seeing the staff grow too.

As for being able to play without a cabal, I've done it many times, and find it easier to do than being with a cabal, since you've got no responsibilities to upkeep, especially now that I've removed cabal intereference.

Thanks for the input, and I will keep it in mind.

[Kyzarius]

I really dont see your point with clan/cabal..and "sticking" it to 50, every character i have...and i usually dont play alts i play one character all the way...is played to 50 and cabaled.

The "difficulty" in getting into a cabal is double-edged as well..in one hand it keeps being in a cabal an elite thing or at least semi-elite...secondly it PROTECTS new people from getting quad-ruple reemed by high count pk'ers who usually live/enjoy/love cabal warfare.

Imagine newbievonnewbster...and he gets into knight..he has the armor he wore to pinn and then gets just slaughtered by morchial, now...he wants to equip, and askarran slays him, oops!! here comes the lich too...man newbievonnewbster just deleted....heck even players who have played many cabal characters get frustrated as all hell by being on th elosing end of the stick.

no...the clan/cabal system i think is very good the way it is. just my imho.

[Deykari]

My very first pinn got caballed, and condeathed, against a Cabal that was strong at the time. I don't think new players need protecting from getting owned, they just need to learn how to deal with getting killed/looted. The good thing about Cabal warfare as opposed to being uncaballed is that uncaballed play you can take at your own pace. When you're in a Cabal, you're forced into PKing with enemies, it's a little more hectic. I think getting thrown into the thick of things like that is great for learning, if a little tricky to get used to. Newbie players shouldn't be penalized by not being able to get into Cabals in my opinion, provided the newbie has a willingness to learn and dedication. Though that's not the point anyway, because Immortals are in charge. For them to be in charge anyway means that they are trusted to make the right decisions and so they can make the choice as to wether a newbie should be allowed in or not. Player run cabals may lean the other way if you happen to get a Cabal Leader who is a little less fair.

I think the Cabal system is fine.

Dey

[Questioner]

You aren't at the end of a losing stick. Just in the cycle of fl your at the low point for knights. Which I don't think is true. I actually think they are making a comeback compared to before.

[Shadowmaster]

I wonder sometimes why you post misinfo.

Bash:

There is more to is than your size - in fact, it can be made useless by anyone. Its not the determining factor in a fight at lvl 50 - if you find that it is, its your 'PK-skill' not the 'bash-skill' ( ) that is at fault.

Tell you what. You get your non-giant warrior, and I will get my giant warrior. We will give you a set of newbie gear, and me a full set of uniques. Then when I bash your *** down you can tell me how it was your pk skill and not my bash skill.

I am sure you will have some witty retort detailing how I misinterprted your comments, but the truth is bash does win fights, and at hero. To say it can be made useless by anyone is also flat-out misinfo. Even enlarged and carrying max weight you can still get complete command denial with bashes if the basher is smart.

[Shadowmaster]

Syndicate and Bounties.

This is something that Syndicate have to take care of themselves. If they stop chasing after 10k bounties' date=' they'll stop being placed. Messalantha can RP "I don't chase bounty hunters that aren't top10/top3" if she wants (and Malanith approves). The system isn't perfect, but right now it's pretty damned good.[/quote']

When I played Ivlizik I was told in no uncertain terms, by Eitreach, that all bounties were to be collected no matter how pathetic. I would say that was not a pretty damned good system. What would happen is I would be with another PC, in Winter or something, and a third PC would bounty the character I was with with a frigging elemental bracelet. I would then get reamed out for travelling with someone with a bounty and forced to try and collect, which effectively meant pissing away an ally for all of 10 seconds of trouble by PC #3.

An ideal situation would be items must be of the level of the player being bountied, or higher. This would prevent losers from exploiting the bounty system to screw over Syndicates.

[Behrens]

Tell you what. You get your non-giant warrior, and I will get my giant warrior. We will give you a set of newbie gear, and me a full set of uniques. Then when I bash your *** down you can tell me how it was your pk skill and not my bash skill.

I am sure you will have some witty retort detailing how I misinterprted your comments, but the truth is bash does win fights, and at hero. To say it can be made useless by anyone is also flat-out misinfo. Even enlarged and carrying max weight you can still get complete command denial with bashes if the basher is smart.

It is nearly impossible to keep a full command denial for much longer than a tick. And full uniques v. newbie gear isn't even a rational comparison and you know it. In equal gear, I have rarely seen a pure laglock win a battle.

I am not arguing that lag isn't powerful. It is, and will continue to be, but people in equal equipment need to rely on far more than it.

Keeping melee v. melee balanced is tough, and I will always be adjusting here and there to keep it balanced.

[Behrens]

When I played Ivlizik I was told in no uncertain terms' date=' by Eitreach, that all bounties were to be collected no matter how pathetic. I would say that was [b']not a pretty damned good system. What would happen is I would be with another PC, in Winter or something, and a third PC would bounty the character I was with with a frigging elemental bracelet. I would then get reamed out for travelling with someone with a bounty and forced to try and collect, which effectively meant pissing away an ally for all of 10 seconds of trouble by PC #3.

An ideal situation would be items must be of the level of the player being bountied, or higher. This would prevent losers from exploiting the bounty system to screw over Syndicates.

Eitreach was never my Syndicate IMM. Please don't argue points of different IMMstaffs against me. Malanith is my Syndicate IMM. Argue Syndicate RP with him.

[Goomf]

It is nearly impossible to keep a full command denial for much longer than a tick. And full uniques v. newbie gear isn't even a rational comparison and you know it. In equal gear, I have rarely seen a pure laglock win a battle.

I am not arguing that lag isn't powerful. It is, and will continue to be, but people in equal equipment need to rely on far more than it.

Keeping melee v. melee balanced is tough, and I will always be adjusting here and there to keep it balanced.

I remember a time when my vamp, decked out to hell, fought chuckie's ogre warmaster gladiator. He had normal equipment + staff of nature's spirit. 10 rounds of bash lock and I died.

There were also plenty of times where my dkns bashlocked level 50s for 6+ rounds. Unless it's changed, it's pretty common for bashlock to work for many many rounds.

Also, you assume that people with equal gears are fighting. That in itself is a Huge HUGE assumption since it usually is gears that wins the fight. There aren't enough exceptional gears to go around. Chances are there will be one or two warriors with awesome eq and the rest are just bash fodders.

[Chromatic]

For people to say that eq doesn't matter. Maybe for a communer or caster. But for a melee. I have fought the same people over and over, they were decked every time, first few times I was and I won without any real scratches on me. After my char died and was looted. I reequipped him to what people consider a set of basic gear. And barely scratched him. EQ has everything to do with it as a melee, now a very very very skilled person may be able to work around that, but it's just that not everyone is in that group of elites.

[Behrens]

I've never said that equipment doesn't matter. It very much does, and the better equipment you have, the better you will do, but there are many other things that affect a battle.

Try laglocking a vampire with a staff, and then doing it with a polearm. Compare and constrast. I have seen decked vampires/crusaders/etc. absolutely rocked by someone who understood the proper setup to down them, came in prepared, and dropped them, despite lesser equipment (mithril with a few extra touches). Not always by classes that people typically think of as "powerful", either. I dropped Lunicant at the height of his power, with a lvl 10 malform and uber equipment, with a paladin in mithril (still one of the kills I am proudest of).

However, I do take the point that there are pieces of equipment that can single-handedly alter the course of a battle. Trust me when I say that I take FL's game-balance very seriously, and I will be spending a good deal of time on such issues.

[Jester]

In no way is this a SINISTER JAB at anyone. This is supposed to be a constructive deconstruction of the system as best as I understand it.

There will be punks who derail/take over this thread.

Respond to this post, not Johnny Bad@ss who wants to be a hero.

10. Gold. It's too time consuming to come by FOR WHAT IT IS (Key words), which is a means to buy comsumables or place (mostly) lameass bounties which have their place on the list.

9. Bounties. Place your cheapass 10k/Double Plated with the Elemental Bracelet Twist price on someone's head, and you too can have every punk in Aabahran after the guy that looked at you funny. I mean honestly, Mess will collect that bounty, but should the Divine Headhunter have to hunt you for a mere pittence? Naw.

8. Rolling. Why not just give everyone max rolling stats? I honestly don't see a downside, anyone that wants them will get them after taking the time to get them. Newbs are #$%$ed because they will take the first/second roll they get. We ALL make rolling triggers for a reason, why should we? Absurd.

7. Bank Fees. They rape you. They rape you so bad you long for the days that you get the old 1.50$ charge on your bank card for ANY AND ALL transactions. If you DON'T get those fees with your bank, and you are in Canada, please give me a message. This probably ties in with "Gold". Blame me for that.

6. Cabal Points. Nonsense. A SECONDARY economy. Yes, you redeem them for useful things, but I mean come on. They are based essentially on the number of hours to grind away (usually) to get to that "V" which is all encompassing in and of itself. Yes, you get them from _____ and _____ing your ____ _____, sure. Not much though. It only creates a larger divide between the haves and the have nots.

5. Ranking. Okay, sure. It is a game that goes from 1-50. But why does it have to take so much time? The "elite" players (myself included) can do it pretty damn fast, but what about the rest? What about poor Newbie McNewberson, or Casual Hasafamily? Does it really need to take that much time? Would jacking up the xp-rate (looks like "X-Pirate, it's not though") really hurt the game that much? Many times, it's damn hard to find a group, and there are ALWAYS level 30 Bad@#$es out there, or even beyond, who interrupt your hunt. I mean, people are going to get there, it's a given. No need to hand it to them, but maybe a little boost?

4. Request Times. Okay, so I'm wandering around, not much on the go, I want a Shiny (Item Edited), so I sit down with the mob and have a few beers, smoke a few (item edited), maybe ask him if he can part with (item edited).Sure, that's great. But does it really need to take so damn long? That's really my main problem with the thing. You are helpless there, and should some Evil Fire Giant walk by and see you there, stop by, give you a few love taps (bashes) that's it. Game over. You have been KILLED!

3. Bash. Bash should not be THE determining factor. Bash should not be the only command you neet to enter. Bash should not be the thing you do while you wait for sanc to fall so you can pwn all n00bs. There are counters, but they are either class/race based or ____. If they are class or race based, then you are likely dealing with another giant sized melee or a caster. Drow Warrior SHOULD have a chance against Ogre Warrior because of his (or her, I'm PC yes you heard me Sue) natural uber dex. But...what happens is bash bash bash dead. Absurd.

2. There are no points for second best. (No Entry) *Top Gun Reference*

1. The Clan/Cabal system.

1. It was different 3 years ago, much easier and you had idiots joining cabals and ruining RP, because it was too easy to get it.

2. I've been second best in a few fights and was still given props for "holding my own." Thats enough for me i guess, i guess just waiste more time training.

3. There are things that make you grow, shields that protect you, ways to counter it, and if you really think about it, bash isnt that great of a skill. I can think of MANY things id rather be casting / doing.

4. Light walkers used to have to get other people to fight light walker mobs for gear...

5. 5 years ago i was that noobie. Quite frankly I think it gives you more time to learn the map, learn ways to run. And i personally extend a thank you to all of the lvl 30 bad@sses who made me delete half my characters when i was new because it helped me learn and become the bad@ss i am now. It's all in how you take it man. I remember they had a halloween brawl in like 04 or 05 and They allowed everyone to make lvl 50's no leveling at all and it was complete chaos. No roleplaying, no collecting gear, just everyone pounding on stuff and rerolling minutes later.

6. There should be a destinct line between the have's and have nots. That way the have's can teach the have nots, and we dont need new players running cabals, it can be very confusing and very difficult for them, punishing all the more experienced players below them.

7. Kinda like real life huh?

8. Because nothing in FL is free, we are hardcore here.

9. I use bounties alot for roleplaying. And most muds have a bounty system, hell we have bounties in real life. Its another added element to make the game experience more challenging and more enjoyable. I know if im playing a bard and a berserker keeps ruining my day, I'm putting a fat bounty on his head, i may not know how to kill you but i know how to get you dead.

10. I found and spent 170k just yesterday... maybe you looking in the wrong spots?

I'm not trying to make you look bad or anything, its just i have been around for over 5 years, been known by many names to include Sin-Clover, in the forums. I just thought i'd give people a perspective from someone who watched FL evolve from what it was to what it is now. not that you havent been around a while.

[Chayesh]

Not to take anything away from Jester's post, but to make sure those who should know do know, Hegemon is not some newbie making these comments either and has been here also for quite some time.

Some might remember a rather well-known 2.0 cleric hero from Miruvhor named Galvatar, among his other well-played characters.

Just so no one gets the wrong impression of Hegemon's experience playing the game...

Please continue the discussion.

[Jester]

Not to take anything away from Jester's post, but to make sure those who should know do know, Hegemon is not some newbie making these comments either and has been here also for quite some time.

Some might remember a rather well-known 2.0 cleric hero from Miruvhor named Galvatar, among his other well-played characters.

Just so no one gets the wrong impression of Hegemon's experience playing the game...

Please continue the discussion.

I agree, I've seen him do many great things in FL, he is far from the noob, he was here when i first arrived, one of the few 2.0 that are still around. heh, hell we even had different immortals back then. EA games stole them! grr.