New weapon class: Natural

Why don't their hands just take the weapon class of whatever weapon they were wielding prior to transformation?

This right here is the best suggestion IMO. I like having more reactions for any given situation and keeping the weapon type would allow for that.

Also, being able to use non-skill items (No staves) while transformed and being able to rummage through your backpack would be a really nice QOL buff. I never understood how turning into a still thinking/reasoning individual makes it so you can't sink your teeth/beak into that nice juicy vial of sanctuary.

Granted I don't have any 'legendary' characters so my opinion does not count for much.

I think a transformed beast might actually need some time of dirt resistance. Maybe an increased chance to dodge it if nothing else. My reason being is that a blind werebeast without blindfighting (primarily a zerk) gets absolutely hosed in melee attacks landed. Transforming your also sacrificing alot of your skills:

Weaponcleave, Shield cleave, second hand cleave, disarm (technically you can still try, but it is absolutely pointless because you will never disarm someone with h2h if your not a monk), archery, shield block, parry, dual parry, weapon block, any bonuses to weapons based on class selectable expertises, Bloodhaze.

I am sure the list goes on, but this is what pops up offhand. I also do not think that simply giving them the weapon class of whatever weapon they wield before transforming is a good idea. This will create a huge influx of moderate werewolves who get an invoker to heavily enchant a pair of throwing axes, and transform + werepower. meaning they are dual wielding 31 avg damage magical axes. Put this on a ranger and you can guarantee that any class with mid-low defense is going to get simply mangled.

I think the creation of a natural weapon class would alleviate these issues as only werebeasts, and illithids would get access to it anyway.

dual wielding 31 avg damage magical axes.

It's actually sub 30 to my knowledge, and still hand to hand attacks just like monks. The high landing rate is mostly the number of them and the insane hitroll of zerks.

I have the suspicion than a dual wielding Werebeast with axes has more meele power than the same transformed werebeast. But never tested it.

I played a gladiator werewolf, and I assure you my melee was superior while transformed than it was while using a weapon. The downside is you get access to very little while transformed, so to have combat utility you need to use weapons so you can use your glad skills.

A large spotted leopard's claw wounds Heiku.

A large spotted leopard's claw wounds Heiku.

A Gigantic Crab's claw misses you.

You dodge a Gigantic Crab's attack.

You dodge a Gigantic Crab's attack.

Your tainted slash MUTILATES Heiku!

Your tainted slash MUTILATES Heiku!

Heiku parries your attack.

Heiku dodges your attack.

Your tainted slash MUTILATES Heiku!

A large mammoth jumps in front of you!

Heiku has some small wounds and bruises.

these numbers are vs a sanced, and moderately armed person. You do not pull lacerates/mutilates through sanc without a vuln weapon without having high avg damage.

Why would you just not transform in situations like that? An Invoker wouldn't put up fire shield vs a fire giant. Some skills/abilities gives you an advantage against some and disadvantage against others. If it puts you at a disadvantage, don't do it.

Man you type slow.

Why would you just not transform in situations like that? An Invoker wouldn't put up fire shield vs a fire giant. Some skills/abilities gives you an advantage against some and disadvantage against others. If it puts you at a disadvantage, don't do it.

So what you are saying is - if you go gladiator you shouldn't transform at all?

Why would you go werebeast at all then?

Having played a Zerk Werebeast, there are many reasons to transform. Specially vs a Savant.

With transformed weapons factoring the wielded weapons, dualing axes makes the savant have zero knowledge on your weapon.

You will also have consistently more attacks transformed than dual wielding. And the avg damage of the werebeast claws although sub 30 avg is better than any axe you can wield in a single hand as a werebeast.

Although you "can't" bloodhaze, you can dodge a lot more. In fact as a devastation zerk, the only thing I missed was weapon cleave.

I imagine the other paths might miss some other stuff. Like off hand cleave, or burn proof smashing.

I also noticed that I did a lot better transformed than untransformed vs meeles. Mainly due to higher consistent damage output without loosing significant defense.

If I can defeat Ogre warriors while using crap gear, most specialized meele players should have little trouble as this combo.

My main difficulty was vs DK's, as I was forced to fight over water due to the Raged dirted pet rescue tactic they employ, so I could not take advantage of dirt. And their pets can break a bodyslam combo.

Having played a Zerk Werebeast, there are many reasons to transform. Specially vs a Savant.

With transformed weapons factoring the wielded weapons, dualing axes makes the savant have zero knowledge on your weapon.

You will also have consistently more attacks transformed than dual wielding. And the avg damage of the werebeast claws although sub 30 avg is better than any axe you can wield in a single hand as a werebeast.

Although you "can't" bloodhaze, you can dodge a lot more. In fact as a devastation zerk, the only thing I missed was weapon cleave.

I imagine the other paths might miss some other stuff. Like off hand cleave, or burn proof smashing.

I also noticed that I did a lot better transformed than untransformed vs meeles. Mainly due to higher consistent damage output without loosing significant defense.

If I can defeat Ogre warriors while using crap gear, most specialized meele players should have little trouble as this combo.

My main difficulty was vs DK's, as I was forced to fight over water due to the Raged dirted pet rescue tactic they employ, so I could not take advantage of dirt. And their pets can break a bodyslam combo.

What? Mya played a melee character?

I think there are several balance issues with simply making their transformed weapon into the wielded weapon class. Lets say the beast is dual wielding whips. High offense, low defense. If you take that into your transformation, then you have the high offense and zero defense. Its a small hit but you loose your weapon defenses anyway so its not so much of a setback. Then you start thinking about disarming. First, transformed you cant be disarmed. Second, if you can disarm like a whip with zero risk of loosing said whip, thats kinda big.

I know this doesnt mean anything with zerks, but that change will change the mechanics of classes that can disarm. Perhaps its something that beasts need, but it seems a little broken to me.

Unfortunately I think this is a case where a werebeast is not one of the better choices for a berserker class. Although having their natural weapons take on the skill level of the weapon they were wielding does seem plausible, I would certainly think it should be thoroughly tested, as there may be unintended consequences. Not every race should be great with every class, and obviously werebeast rangers and druids do just fine.

So what you are saying is - if you go gladiator you shouldn't transform at all?

Why would you go werebeast at all then?

Heh, werebeasts have their advantages, just maybe not in gladiator?

Man you type slow.

Low blow.

A moderate werebeast zerk devastation gladiator is a very interesting choice. Specialty for a new player.

As in my view it's the least high end EQ depending combo, who can raise from the dead fully combat ready.

It's a great tool for learning. Remember Cabal gear can be looted on moderates.

And you can chose to not transform and use the weapon stances.

A human doesn't even get's to have that choice.

tl;dr

I vote werebeast weapon type is changed to exotic. All problems solved.

This talk of rangers is a completely different issue than werebeasts, which are not OP in any way as a race. Rangers could probably use some tweaking.

tl;dr

 

I vote werebeast weapon type is changed to exotic. All problems solved.

 

This talk of rangers is a completely different issue than werebeasts, which are not OP in any way as a race. Rangers could probably use some tweaking.

You're so behind the times its ridiculous.

Get up to speed and offer some insight

Right? Stop resurrecting the dead threads.