Qraces (non give away type stuff)

[The Greased Weasel]

Ok, here is something I've been wondering if PK is considered to be meaningless, and no show of skill pre-50 why, oh why do vamps, undeads, and demons in a manner need to demonstrate said "skill" with PK before 50?

Isn't there some other way we can look at doing this process?

[Malanith]

PK is PK at all ranks, from 10-50. It is allowable within reason at any rank. If PK is an intergral part of your RP, it begins at creation not when you hit 50. It is a generally accepted 'theory' between the players of this community, that 'life begins at 50'. However, as much as we would love this to be, it is not. Life begins at 1, and continues until you delete or condeath. No more, no less.

[Evangelion]

If PK is an intergral part of your RP, it begins at creation

PK doesn't begin at level one, silly goose.

[The Greased Weasel]

PK is PK at all ranks' date=' from 10-50. It is allowable within reason at any rank. If PK is an intergral part of your RP, it begins at creation not when you hit 50. It is a generally accepted 'theory' between the players of this community, that 'life begins at 50'. However, as much as we would love this to be, it is not. Life begins at 1, and continues until you delete or condeath. No more, no less.[/quote']

And I can quote an Imm saying it means nothing before 50, and how the game is balanced for 50 not pre-50

[corpsestomp]

PK at 30 does demonstrate some sort of skill. To survive you have to know about a few potions/pills and some decent equipment. I think the whole point of it is to show that the person playing isn't going to be playing the qrace/qclass for two weeks, take a few deaths, and delete because they have no way to get back on their feet.

[Archbishop Monk]

PK at 30 does demonstrate some sort of skill. To survive you have to know about a few potions/pills and some decent equipment. I think the whole point of it is to show that the person playing isn't going to be playing the qrace/qclass for two weeks' date=' take a few deaths, and delete because they have no way to get back on their feet.[/quote']

From what I understand for some it is more about survivability than it is a perfect Pk record. Why give a qrace to someone who will condeath in under a week? Though some qraces are PK reliant, meaning their entire outlook is based on pk. Just my thoughts.

[Malanith]

And I can quote an Imm saying it means nothing before 50' date=' and how the game is balanced for 50 not pre-50[/quote']

The first part is personal opinion. The second part is game mechanics.

If all you do is power-rank to 50, and then start 'being' your character, you are: 1) not roleplaying and 2) missing out on the growth of your character. Too many people start with a RP angle and never stray from it, no matter what their 'life' throws at them along the way. Life-changing events are ignored because people are so focused on 'their' RP they forget that people change, no matter who they are- even if it's minute or grand.

Does it mean nothing until 50? To me it doesn't. It's about the growth of your character. If it doesn't matter, then we would all just start out at 50 to begin with. But no, you are given that time to develop as a player and a character. You're given 50 ranks, live all 50- not just the last one.

Is it balanced for 50? In part, yes. It's designed to be played at 50 (no rank advantage, no mob death fear, all your skills/spells available, etc.), but no where does it say to not play the first 49.

And for all of you who complain about rank 30 sitting qrace-wanna-be's, I've got three words for you: Rank Past Them.

[The Greased Weasel]

The first part is personal opinion. The second part is game mechanics.

If all you do is power-rank to 50, and then start 'being' your character, you are: 1) not roleplaying and 2) missing out on the growth of your character. Too many people start with a RP angle and never stray from it, no matter what their 'life' throws at them along the way. Life-changing events are ignored because people are so focused on 'their' RP they forget that people change, no matter who they are- even if it's minute or grand.

Does it mean nothing until 50? To me it doesn't. It's about the growth of your character. If it doesn't matter, then we would all just start out at 50 to begin with. But no, you are given that time to develop as a player and a character. You're given 50 ranks, live all 50- not just the last one.

Is it balanced for 50? In part, yes. It's designed to be played at 50 (no rank advantage, no mob death fear, all your skills/spells available, etc.), but no where does it say to not play the first 49.

And for all of you who complain about rank 30 sitting qrace-wanna-be's, I've got three words for you: Rank Past Them.

I never commented on their rp, or not rp'ing to 50 or any of these tangents you're taking, I simply commented on the pkill portion, nothing more. I had zero, zilch, notta, sweet jack poop to do with commenting on their RP

[Chayesh]

I don't think anyone ever said that PK before rank 50 was meaningless.

I believe this impression comes from us saying the game is meant to be played (i.e. balanced class power) at 50.

While this is true, no one would ever say PK pre-50 doesn't matter and is something rather subjective to the situation. That is to say, a class in their power spike range pre-50 clearing the PK range of lower ranked and less powerful characters does not impress, while the inverse certainly would. Additionally, as you are asking about quest races and classes, obviously for these special types of characters, the requirements to obtain them are going to go above and beyond what anyone would require of a standard character.

[Malanith]

Then let me ask what is the point of your post? The fact that the afore mentioned qraces/classes feel the need to pkill while waiting on app aproval? Or the basic 'notion' of qsitters 'have' to pkill? A definitive 'gripe' in a more explanitory way may better help get your point across.

I highly doubt qraces/classes/qhopefuls will be punished for following pre-ordained 'accepted norms for behavior' (see help undead, help demon, help vampire, help avatar). If they follow these, then their RP (read: PK) is justified.

Explain a little bit more in-depth, and we'll see what I can respond with.

[Ex-D&Der]

I think it's a matter of all-around solidness. How you do on the way to 50 can tell you something about the kind of character it's going to be.

[The Greased Weasel]

Then let me ask what is the point of your post? The fact that the afore mentioned qraces/classes feel the need to pkill while waiting on app aproval? Or the basic 'notion' of qsitters 'have' to pkill? A definitive 'gripe' in a more explanitory way may better help get your point across.

I highly doubt qraces/classes/qhopefuls will be punished for following pre-ordained 'accepted norms for behavior' (see help undead, help demon, help vampire, help avatar). If they follow these, then their RP (read: PK) is justified.

Explain a little bit more in-depth, and we'll see what I can respond with.

Or I can scrape the sarcasm off your post and write three whole threads with it.

The thirties seem a poor choice to prove prowess is all Im saying, I've played my share of Vamps, and undead...no demons though, and as abilities stand with what classes have at that waiting stage it doesnt paint an accurate picture of a characters ability to pk. I know with how changes in race not dramaticly changing the abilities of a class, it wouldn't be prudent to make them wait till 50, remort, etc I'm just trying to brainstorm to get some ideas to how a better way can be found to guage ability in combat for people, so put the blowtorch down for a bit.

Perhaps make the races a bit more like avatar in application process and what not, possible from a low level and up with no cap level for application?

[Malanith]

Or I can scrape the sarcasm off your post and write three whole threads with it.

As I understood it, the first post seemd a thin "I just died to a 30 rank-sitter, what can we do about this and pretend it's a balancing issue" post. Sarcasm seemed the proper response. Upon reading your last post, I now understand just what you were trying to convey. I could not get that from the first one. Hence, sarcasm.

The thirties seem a poor choice to prove prowess is all Im saying, I've played my share of Vamps, and undead...no demons though, and as abilities stand with what classes have at that waiting stage it doesnt paint an accurate picture of a characters ability to pk. I know with how changes in race not dramaticly changing the abilities of a class, it wouldn't be prudent to make them wait till 50, remort, etc I'm just trying to brainstorm to get some ideas to how a better way can be found to guage ability in combat for people, so put the blowtorch down for a bit.

No matter what rank you put it at, the end still remains. People will attempt to prove themselves with PKs. As the game has few ways to prove your 'worth', a PK record that is impressive remains one of them. 30 as a benchmark rank fills certain needed elements: 1) time to get used to new abilities, 2) time to adapt to your new RP, 3) time to train. These things, while not impossible to do at 50, is better suited when one is younger without certain distractions about them (cabals, super-geared pinns, etc.)

Perhaps make the races a bit more like avatar in application process and what not, possible from a low level and up with no cap level for application?

An interesting idea.

[The Greased Weasel]

I know putting Vamps as a get to 50 and remort would be a bad idea cause...well...they don't tan well, so im not sure how to handle them

[Anume]

I'll give you two examples:

First rank 30 dk kills 20+ people, most while they were training or had a severe rank disadvantage, gets killed 5 times. Wears rank 50 armor while pking. Standard or minimal rp.

Second 30 dk kills 4 people, all of them of roughly same or higher rank, one or two even rough uphill battles. Gets not killed at all. Shows excellent rp. Wears rank 30 armor.

Second dk would surely impress me more. Has proven some knowledge in survival and pk both. What is meaningless is mass pk below entering the 50 range in hopes to get into some cabal later on. Your have high chances of getting a reputation for being "trashy" early on that way.

[corpsestomp]

I'd just like to say, I find the game reasonably well-balanced at 30. Unless you are a warrior, all classes have all defenses at 30. They also have access to all their weapons, and most c/c's have at least one strong spell.

[ainbimagh]

Not much stands up against necro at 30 heh

[HBwillie]

From what I understand for some it is more about survivability than it is a perfect Pk record. Why give a qrace to someone who will condeath in under a week? Though some qraces are PK reliant' date=' meaning their entire outlook is based on pk. Just my thoughts.[/quote']

Completely untrue. Dey was given a demon cleric.

[Deykari]

Pfft.

My Demon application was accepted after just 9 hours.

The only people I PKed at 30 were people who verbally/physically assaulted me. I just used store-bought slaves/pets as tools to be killed off.

Of course, the PK aspect is part of it, because the Imms need to see you can at least handle yourself. Though I agree in some cases that 30 is not the most accurate way of judging this for some classes - case in point, my first (rather crappily RPed) Undead Ninja demolished the 30 range. At 50, I can't even demolish an apple pie with a hammer.

A lot, lot, LOT of the time though, you CAN avoid getting killed at 30 if you just keep your wits about you. You can, that is - not me.

Dey

[HBwillie]

Just kidding pal, I loved Wymsicant.

[Deykari]

I know you were kidding. I was just trying to scrape some sort of dignity from the post (trying being the operative word).

Dey

[Chromatic]

Yeah, wymsicant was a cool character. And I noticed someone said something about a cabal. I've only tried to get into two cabals, and one said cabal was a heavy pk cabal. I had one PK under my belt at that point, but it was against someone who had a rank advantage and equipment that far outclassed mine, he just made a very big mistake and paid for it. He killed me at least 5 times in revenge, but he never once came after me at pinn, so I guess it was worth it. Only cabal I would think that PK would be the baseline woulda been Syndi, but now they got their merchants, so I don't know how they work either.