Was there ever a feral druid?

[Behrens]

Celerity, you know I respect you as a player and your opinions.

However, you are dead wrong on the game balance here. A feral with the stats you are talking about would be bar-none the most powerful race in the game.

Ferals were instituted the way they were by Viri, and they've balanced into the game well, from what I've seen. They've been RPed and fit into the RP as more beastmen than twisted men. I understand that wasn't what was intended at the start, but that's what we've got.

[Mudder]

However' date=' you are dead wrong on the game balance here.[/quote']

I'm backed by the big man.

[Celerity]

Alright, let's take a deeper look...

Fire-based spells are some of the easiest to save against

What are the fire spells in the game? Flamestrike, Firestorm, Flame Arrow, Fireball, Fire shield.

Only fireball and firestorm are easy to save against. In one case, the invokers who have these spells have an alternative to well-equipped feral (call lightning), which is more damaging than fireball anyways, due to very low feral AC (especially if decked in anti-mage gear). Add in unblockable fire shield damage and lack of protection (outside of feral cleric) and you have a dead feral, if you happen to miss a single fury or don't two round the invoker.

DKs also have fireball, but then again, dks can also tap the feral vulns in multiple ways (bashing/spells/melee and at the same time).

and fury helps a great, great deal as well;

Of the classes that uses these spells, fury is only effective against invokers and paladins (they can't lag you). Fury doesn't do anything against pre-casts like firestorm/fire shield. Invokers have the UNBLOCKABLE fire shield (feral fire defense does nothing here), and unless you are playing a feral warrior or blademaster (which you shouldn't play the blm due to attack bug), the staple paladin fire polearm + charge will rock your day.

some of the other feral perks make them very strong vs melees as well, too.

Feral are medium-sized, low hp, and without lag protection, which makes them weak to bashers by default. Any giant/ogre/mino melee with a fire weapon simply has to bashlock them (again, there is a fire weapon type that every feral doesn't know (mace/polearm/sword/etc), except warrior).

Rangers have fired weapons which include unblockable (again, no feral defense here) fire damage, along with thunderstorm (feral low ac) and melee capability. If that ranger happens to be an archer or tracker (even MORE unblockable fire damage), you are very, very dead.

Thieves have backstab, which can actually one-round feral (feral has thief defense--sense motion, but it is passive and more for ATTACKING rogues, rather than avoiding them).

Vampires, crusaders, and demons all have their specific advantages against feral also.

Feral rely a lot on melee defense bonuses (ogre regen bonus is WAY better)...but these have no effect against unblockable damage (which there is a LOT for fire). Add in the availability of fire weapons of all weapon types (so you can null some defenses), lack of lag protection, little lagging ability, and low hp.

??

What are feral GOOD at? Feral are good at attacking necromancers and shaman. Haha..ah.ha...h..a..

As for the RP, I guess that is up to you, and I can't do anything about it if that is what you say they are. Would be nice to update the help though.

[Mudder]

There are many warrior classes that are not giant sized. That is actually a balance issue we both have called to attention along with many others. I believe it is actually being looked into.

But who knows? So I don't think it is valid to put here, because it might actually change in the near future.

[delfytheelfy]

I would agree with Celerity here...

There is a reason most good feral's you see are Watcher. I can't really mention it here. But yeah...

A race should not have to be a certain cabal to be good.

[Mudder]

I remember a recent feral cleric that did pretty well. I didn't face him, ever. But I heard good props when he left.

Remember the WM ranger leader? He owned my Vampire Sirican pretty hardcore. I was wielding a fire polearm. I didn't even hit him.

[Celerity]

A half-elf warrior CAN be good..this doesn't prove balance. If you need to play it very elitely to be good, then it isn't balanced.

[Acerbity]

A feral taking shield expertise can block the flaming arrows.

But then, that's only one solution to a thousand other unblockable weaknesses And that's just as a warrior. (BLM can too, with a certain stance.)

[Yuri]

If I were you I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a feral BlM.

Though I hate the utter eq dependency of melees, and really don't like evils. (I could rp them easy enough but I'd be toast pkill wise even worse AND come off as a wuss to top it off. Being sinister isn't just talk you know...)

So yeah I've always wanted to play one but haven't ever.

and as for the other class options... well it leaves only ranger. And there's already too many of those. And much better played.

[L-A]

I think ferals are quite strong too - Fury useful against most fire casts, feral melee perks for vs fire weapons. Yes, that's right, they are VERY strong melee with their perks + 24 dex.

Medium sized? No different to humans, slith, elf, drow etc BUT the defense vs giant size bash/slam is ac and 24 dex puts you up here.

There have been some terror's as ferals as I recall.

I also hate this 'if it has to be played elitely its not balanced' nonsense as well. Its called a powerspike. Feral's aren't a beginner race, but neither are ogres.

Cheers,

L-A

[Acerbity]

It seems a lot of people here want every race to be a beginner race. Unfortunately, balance comes with time, training, and knowledge of what you're playing and how to play it. True balance would just basically be that the only class/race you could play was human warrior, etc.

Then again, a newb, completely decked out, in most cases, can beat an elite player who's only in mithril/tainted armor. Balance lies in the possibilities of how you can play a race/class, not armor, not the particular race, and definately not the class.

[Anume]

Re Acerbity: And then you watch some old fox with 3 pieces of armor and NO weapon disarm some shiny newb, wield his weapon and beat the crap out of him. And then you laugh.

[goldbond]

a cleric who can see hidden, has fury, huge dex, played by a player who knows how to gather -affliction gear and re-equip relatively fast? pShaw! ferals dont need a thing.

[Pieman]

Feral's aren't a beginner race' date=' [i']but neither are ogres.

Unless they're rangers.

[L-A]

Unless they're rangers.

Roll an invoker. Cast fireball. 'Nuff said.

L-A

[Zavero]

If you don't think ogre's are challenging even as a ranger you got another thing coming. If you don't have the proper saves vs. any mage you are toast with ease. No matter how good you are.

[Chromatic]

I think a feral with a certain cabal affiliation is one of the most powerful races in the game. But I never made one because imo it goes against a bit of rp.

[Archbishop Monk]

If you don't think ogre's are challenging even as a ranger you got another thing coming. If you don't have the proper saves vs. any mage you are toast with ease. No matter how good you are.

Yes, but having enough saves vs. mage classes as an ogre ranger is FAR different from an ogre warrior. Ogre rangers don't have to be in the front in a fight in order to kill you. Plus, they can play the attrition game easier with Camo and their ungodly healing. Yes mages can hurt you, but you can camo and get away for a few ticks and heal that damage back, or herb yourself and get away to heal for a few if poisoned/plagued. Hence, ogre = less challenging than a feral when it comes to rangers IMO. At least ogre's can heal up that damage. Ferals have to pray that they land that certain skill, and even then some classes will just pummel them around.

[Evangelion]

Ogre Rangers are pretty much battlemage fodder. Invokers is a fifty-fifty, based on the ranger's EQ.

At least that's what I experienced with my ogre ranger, and even with the other races of rangers that I played.

[Archbishop Monk]

Ogre Rangers are pretty much battlemage fodder. Invokers is a fifty-fifty, based on the ranger's EQ.

At least that's what I experienced with my ogre ranger, and even with the other races of rangers that I played.

Feral rangers have about the same problems. Unless they get lucky. Fire weapon and meteor swarm.........no ogre regen or hps........ouch.

But any ranger race can do well if the weather is right.

[Evangelion]

Not necessarily. My recent ogre was getting mauls and decimates out of thunder storm, against Jenaosae and a couple others.

[Pali]

Then again' date=' a newb, completely decked out, in most cases, can beat an elite player who's only in mithril/tainted armor.[/quote']

If this newb is able to catch someone off guard and two round them due to eq, that person isn't an elite. Elites don't get caught without sanc, flight, detect invis, and prot shield, and therefore don't instantly die. Beat, maybe. But we all know beating someone is very, very different from killing them.

PS: The little experience I have had with fury has not shown it to be in any way a fight-winning skill, any more than silence or blasphemy, unless placed at the right moment. Now, as stated, this is little experience, and not with me as the feral, so I may be misunderstanding the power of it... but I wouldn't think of fury as being a big balancing for feral weaknesses. The reason I don't play ferals is because of that fire vuln (which, unlike with ogres/fire giants, isn't balanced by high hp, regen, or damage potential), and because I have actually never lost a fight to one.

[Hegemon]

Ferals are intense, man. I think the problem is more with fire (damage, not race) melee than it is with fire spell damage. Fury kills, kids, and anyone who thinks otherwise will be learning a thing or two when the dirty kitty scratches your eyes out.

Spellwise, though, I mean honestly if you are having problems with FIREBALL then you don't have enough saves. It's that simple. The rest, meh, comeci comeca. Having played an invoker extensively, I can tell you that the fire spells (Yes, even old unblockable fire shield) don't really do all that much if you have the saves. Add to that getting furied, and it all goes downhill from there.

You have to know what you are doing, something perhaps I wasn't so good at with my own feral, but it can be done. And it's sick when it happens.

[Pali]

Spellwise' date=' though, I mean honestly if you are having problems with FIREBALL then you don't have enough saves. It's that simple. The rest, meh, comeci comeca. Having played an invoker extensively, I can tell you that the fire spells (Yes, even old unblockable fire shield) don't really do all that much if you have the saves. Add to that getting furied, and it all goes downhill from there.[/quote']

I've NEVER lost to a feral with an invoker, though I'll freely admit that such a matchup has not happened in some time. That being said, firestorm is highly underrated as an offensive spell by many... fire shield + firestorm = feral death. I've had firestorm land blinding oblits on cast through sanc/protection/-45aff when cast through fire shield (to a slith, not to a feral, btw, so no vuln), and the next two rounds it did another mangle and demolish while I was casting other things (then my target ran). Firestorm is both unblockable and can do incredible damage, and should not be underestimated in any circumstances.