increased xp weekends on tha regular

I was just under the impression that getting the best gear possible was always meant to be a challenge, and having the best gear possible was a status thing and an invitation for other players to come and try to take it from you.

It still is. Thats how i got my gear now. Rare count was upped not uniques. Everyone is not in an adeptus suit. You can just get a suit of good rares that allow you to be competitive is all.

Oh, my bad. Adeptus! I forgot about that place.

Nameless: Looks like you didn't understand what I was saying. You are outlining the problem yourself: if a shaman is too strong without EQ and a melee is too strong with it...it looks like we need to look at how much EQ affects classes. Playing with the rare count isn't going to fix it.

Although I like Celerity's points, I miss the days when 5-6 people were needed for Gear. Not two. Those places need upped in difficulty. Unfortunately, our small pbase makes it hard.

Thats just it. Some classes require gearing. A warrior is as strong as his arms and armor. A cleric his faith. An invoker their incantations. A naked shaman and a naked war are on different lvls. A decked shaman and decked war are too. Melee anything in any game are affected by eq you can't get around that. In a perfect world maybe but not here.

Sure you can...increase the power/variety/general usefulness of their skills.

The point isn't to remove EQ--it is to put more emphasis on combo (race/class/path/cabal) builds instead of having most of the game based on EQ builds.

Combo does effect eq choices. There is no universal godsuit. Each race class cabal is different. A glad and barb will suit differently even if they are the same race/class.

Strike three. I don't think he is going to get it.

I have to agree that you seem to be missing Celerity's point, Nameless. She's not saying there is a simple hierarchical progression of eq along the lines of you start with mithril, then upgrade to titanium fullplate, then Adeptus, and the problem is that Adeptus is too strong.

What she is saying is that the relative power of equipment versus the relative power of combo abilities is warped - that there is too much concentrated on the equipment end, rather than being based in your combo. That different combos use different eq is entirely irrelevant to this point. What she is saying is that if a naked warrior has no chance against a naked shaman but a decked warrior will usually pound a decked shaman, then the equipment is not the issue at all - the issue is that we have classes that don't get enough of their power solely from their abilities, but from abilities that rely on the power of the character's equipment, a state which will lead to ability/eq synergies that do NOT balance across the classes.

In other words, it leads us to exactly where we are: we have classes that without eq are incredibly weak but with great eq are incredibly strong (mostly melees), and we have classes that without eq are pretty weak but with great eq are pretty strong (mostly casters). Not all classes benefit from eq equally, nor are all classes weakened by the lack of eq equally. That, I think, is what Celerity is identifying as a core design issue in need of addressing - if I am wrong, please correct me.

I'm not certain where I stand on this - in a sense, I can see the option of taking an eq-based class versus an ability-based class as another level of player choice with it's own obstacles for both the player and the imms balancing things, and I don't think that such a system is flawed by it's nature... hell, in many ways I quite enjoy it. However, there certainly are plenty of details and kinks in the system left to be worked out (some synergy spikes are too high, some are too low, etc., and I do think that in some cases eq adjustments alone may be sufficient). The increased use of consumables hasn't simplified those issues at all either.

I do understand the point, I am merely trying to stress that is how it is. I feel a near naked warrior should be sub par.

Should all DKs have a level 10 malform as soon as they can malform a weapon? Nope. You have to work to get there. You have to improve upon your situation in order to recieve the benefits offered to your class. I feel it is the same with EQ dependant melee. There are melee race/classes that do not require eq to function, and you will notice that in low, or high end gear their output does not heavily vary, wolf rangers being a prime example of that. I consistantly dealt the same damage as a moderate non cabaled ranger as I did a gladiator leader that was decked.

I just don't feel classes that are eq dependant need to be as strong naked as a shaman is naked. It throws off the entire balance of EQ. I also understand that in and of itself is the point. I just feel that some classes need to be EQ dependant for the generally accepted lore of a class to fit.

I do understand the point' date=' I am merely trying to stress that is how it is. I feel a near naked warrior should be sub par.[/quote']

Fair enough. Was just trying to clarify things.

I just feel that some classes need to be EQ dependant for the generally accepted lore of a class to fit.

Agreed, but I'd still love the spikes in power (high and low) to be evened out a bit better. shrugs And if wishes were horses, I'd... well, I'd have more horses than I have any idea what to do with.

I have a somewhat different opinion.

A Naked shaman will have no defences vs a warrior. Nor will the Warrior have any weapons. A better comparison is a non decked Warrior vs a non decked Shaman, both of them, who have gathered some consumables.

A Warrior can easily find mal save gear, being able to stand his ground vs a non decked shaman. about 45 should be very decent. What the warrior will not be able to do is, fight a Invocker because he lacks the AFF saves.

But he can get an suit of AFF saves, but then he will lose to the Shaman.

Now, if we are not talking about a Warrior, which is the most EQ dependent class, but a berserk. A beserker will even do better, due to the massive amount of skill he can use with non decked equipment. Haymaker, Cleave.

Thieves or ninjas, the same. Rangers to. Also a Dark Knight has lots of skills to use, like charmies, summons, cleaves. So will a Blademaster. And monks are kings of fighting in sub par equipment.

So to me the problem is not meeles, but only the Warrior class that has to much of its power connected to equipment, because it hardly has any player imputed skill other than dirt, bash, trip, disarm, offhand disarm, shield disarm and weapon Lore.

hardly has any player imputed skill other than dirt' date=' bash, trip, disarm, offhand disarm, shield disarm and weapon Lore.[/quote']

So they require no skill except for every possible command you can enter during a PK.......

It's not player skill, its skills. The commands you actually type in the mud.

what skills you use is in DIRECT relation to player skill. A skilled player does not cleave a warrior, a new player will.

"what skills you use is in DIRECT relation to player skill" this applies to every class.

What I was trying to write (in very bad english) is that Warriors lack the broad skill options that other classes have. Warriors have many automated skills, but few interesting non automated skills. For example, more lores, and at lower rank.

Hurray for derailment!

it hardly has any player imputed skill other than dirt' date=' bash, trip, disarm, offhand disarm, shield disarm and weapon Lore.[/quote']

Sometimes I have the feeling you post stuff like that just to make us laugh.

I sincerely thank you for that. You made me smile. A LOT

Not all race/class combinations with every build of equipment are going to be completely balanced at all times. This is never going to happen and I don't believe it should be the case. I honestly don't feel that a decked meelee walks all over a decked mage/communer as it is. I do believe there may be a small advantage to the meelee but not the night and day advantage you guys seem to be alluding to. Same with ill clad mage vs ill clad warrior. Yes, there is an advantage to the mage but I don't think it is insurmountable or an instant death to the meelee.

In a perfect world I think every piece of equipment should be obtainable to pretty much every character, however, the level of difficulty in getting the equipment greatly increased. This would work if there was a sizeable playerbase, however, there isn't. If I ever did an eq run it was with 1 or 2 other people. That was all I could find.

Regarding the trident and solar mace. I am pretty sure these are both unique (could be wrong on the trident maybe? Not sure) so how has the situation ever changed from what it was previously?

Not every fight is going to be completely balanced, some are going to be harder then others, that life and it should be expected. Having just come from playing a communer I had no real issues with the meelees generally. A mind sapping gladiator skill I believe requires certain adjustments, either a reduce in damage output or a change to % of remaining mana drain however generally meelees were my easiest fights as a communer, decked or not.

Consumables need adjustment, removal or a far quicker decay time (obviously, stable items like cure blind excluded) as they offer classes that shouldn't have access to certain abilities plentiful access. Sure, you have to have time to gather these however that just further stacks the advantage to those with superfluous amounts of time on their hands. Those who already have the time to get all the greatest EQ around and progress quicker through the cabal ladder.

Locating some consumables as a cleric, I was amazed to find what some people were able to collect and carry around. It bordered on insanity.

Anyway, im out!