Mya is famous for derailing threads into discussions about curatives (or sanctuary herbs) and how they need to be removed. That happens because she doesn't play melees and plays clerics, exclusively. I am just surprised how you, being a member of this community longer than me, still bites that hook.
I am also surprised how Jibber brought the example about the cure serious herb. I'va tried stacking this herb, and it's next to impossible, unless you want to spend HUGE amounts of gold (multiple times too) for a consumable that decays relatively fast.
And lastly, I am tired of people who blame a consumable for their losses.
99.999% of my fights i've lost the person is within 10% of dying. These people are using the consumables you mentioned, i'm not because i dont know where 90% of them are. Untill a few months ago i didn't even know where to find hearts...
There is a lot of talk about balance going on here. When you introduce spells from another class into any other class the ability to blance them becomes harder and harder. When you have situations like stated above where someone can basically have 3 lives it makes it near impossible, short of an assassination, to kill them.
The reason communers are so strong is because they can use these items to preserve mana and attrition you until the end of time. I see all this talk about non-communers, but in the hands of a shaman or evil cleric who can be equally offensive these consumables can actually allow them to draw a fight out 3-4 times longer than they would be able to normally, due to the sheer ammount of mana resources that are not being consumed. They can't be lagged unless they make a mistake i.e. their spells drop. Most classes that can remove their spell shields don't have lag anyway. Whereas EVERY melee is succeptable to lag, extremely gear dependant and even with all the best gear still at a disadvantage to communers.
I've been a fan of removing healing consumables ever since i knew they exhisted.
I'm the last person to complain about losing over a consumable. Secondly, I don't appreciate you telling me I am pulling crap out of my ***. Very disrespectful. And I try not to lead anyone astray on this forum.
Less than 30 minutes and I have 12 charges of lvl 50 cure crit, 18 charges of lvl 21 cure serious, and 7 quaffs of lvl 15 cure crit. My class has no heal ability.
The reason communers are so strong is because they can use these items to preserve mana and attrition you until the end of time.
Does this really happen? Have you seen it in action, logs or are you assuming such? Does anyone else tried such tactic?
The idea of using Consumables as a way to save mana for offensive spells as communer, never crossed my mind. It's actually groundbreaking for me.
I mostly never go out of mana as a cleric, and even sleep during PK to regain more. The factor that normally breaks my momentum is geting low in HP and the time it take to get it back up. It's mostly HP the limit for me.
Shamans, I admit, have a tendency to burn mana quite heavily. And could benefit of this. Oddly the best healing item is good only.
If you can stay on your foes toes the entire time, they will have no time to use curatives. If you keep a mage/communer blind, they cannot use curatives (unless via cast/commune). Consumables are not the problem. If you complain about them and dont use them... whats that tell you? Go get some or find out where they are. Come on now, whats going to be the next arguement? Taking sanc consumables away from melees?
And heres a thought.... ever thought of outrunning your opponent to a temple healer and using 'heal heal' on the tick and then sleep?
My BMG can cure critical blind, the same way as he can zap sanctuary.
As long has you are holding it on hand, it can be used blind.
But its a great counter, if you can dirt kick, and they are slow. In contrast, our experienced player base can run very well blind. Enough to get to a large open area, where they can cure and move while oponents try to track.
Foxx... once again, please, stick to making points rather than insulting people. I don't believe anyone here has been blaming consumables for their losses - I quite specifically said that they were required for some of my battles, but I didn't lose those fights. Nor has anyone suggested getting rid of all consumables that grant any ability that the class doesn't innately have - what people have been arguing is that the power of consumables, particularly of curative consumables, should be toned down a bit. Pay closer attention to what people have been saying, please.
Ghrundor... I will repeat my request for civility and respect for fellow players to you as well. Also, I do not think your post was something you actually spent much time thinking through, considering that it is entirely a strawman and doesn't respond to anything anyone here has actually said. Again, no one is calling for all consumables to go away. Your suggestion of blinding mages to stop consumable use does not stop anything for long, unless you have discovered an uncurable blind that lasts more than two ticks. Using temple healers lags you HEAVILY, so I have no problem with people using them mid-PK. Last, I will simply point out that there are perhaps two players here who can chase fast enough to prevent me from having the time to use consumables - in nearly every fight I am in, I have plenty of time to do so.
Now, can we please discuss this like adults?
Foxx... once again, please, stick to making points rather than insulting people. I don't believe anyone here has been blaming consumables for their losses - I quite specifically said that they were required for some of my battles, but I didn't lose those fights. Nor has anyone suggested getting rid of all consumables that grant any ability that the class doesn't innately have - what people have been arguing is that the power of consumables, particularly of curative consumables, should be toned down a bit. Pay closer attention to what people have been saying, please.
Ghrundor... I will repeat my request for civility and respect for fellow players to you as well. Also, I do not think your post was something you actually spent much time thinking through, considering that it is entirely a strawman and doesn't respond to anything anyone here has actually said. Again, no one is calling for all consumables to go away. Your suggestion of blinding mages to stop consumable use does not stop anything for long, unless you have discovered an uncurable blind that lasts more than two ticks. Using temple healers lags you HEAVILY, so I have no problem with people using them mid-PK. Last, I will simply point out that there are perhaps two players here who can chase fast enough to prevent me from having the time to use consumables - in nearly every fight I am in, I have plenty of time to do so.
Now, can we please discuss this like adults?
Yay, that's called REASON. Now, this probably all belongs in a separate topic. I spent 30 minutes and filled a bag with almost an entire total HP's worth of heals. An immediate issue I see is that three of them are in the same area that is easily macro/timer able(if you are interesting in risking that sort of thing). Within the first two passes I had set up a macro that would take me to the first heal, within 10 rooms or so I had an extra two on top, with another macro that would take me back to my resting spot. 3-4 ticks later a quick locate told me the mobs had returned and I was back in doing it again. Now, please tell me how this is not abuse? Oh hi nice herald who will charge everything for free, can you please charge up a few of these lvl 50 cure crit staves I didn't have a fight a single thing I didn't one round to get? Pretty soon it gets out of control. You have current pins right now that are nearly unbeatable with OUT curable consumables. I tested one of them out today, I thought I was fully prepped for the fight, got spanked pretty hard, and on top of it I knew they had 900 hp in instant curables ON HAND even if I did manage something(those are rare and I don't mind them because they are not freebies to obtain, although maybe a switch to UNIQUE would be better). On top of all of this you have curable items from cabals, quests, and yes, even healers for the heal heal. Now, I hate to argue against curables right now because my current hero is one of the best classes for abusing it, but lets be realistic here, my class gets a ton of power from its abilities and there is a reason it isn't given lvl 50 cure crit.
Does this really happen? Have you seen it in action, logs or are you assuming such? Does anyone else tried such tactic?
The idea of using Consumables as a way to save mana for offensive spells as communer, never crossed my mind. It's actually groundbreaking for me.
I mostly never go out of mana as a cleric, and even sleep during PK to regain more. The factor that normally breaks my momentum is geting low in HP and the time it take to get it back up. It's mostly HP the limit for me.
Shamans, I admit, have a tendency to burn mana quite heavily. And could benefit of this. Oddly the best healing item is good only.
think about duergar shaman using this tactic with the added perks of magic resist, huge health and a legitamite way to preserve mana. The person who tought me how to play this game was using those same tactics and i don't think i ever saw him die.
Hehe SB, the only character that never died and actually accomplished big things was Anamus, so unless the person who taught you how to play was Celerity, then you are probably wrong (for the not dying part).
Was it me? Cause Koortu died once ever I think, before I quit. I'm not even sure who to, and he was a duergar shaman that I played when Sandbox was new.
Although I didn't directly teach you how to play, I think it was MadCowDisease that brought you here if I'm not wrong?
Was it me? Cause Koortu died once ever I think, before I quit. I'm not even sure who to, and he was a duergar shaman that I played when Sandbox was new.
Although I didn't directly teach you how to play, I think it was MadCowDisease that brought you here if I'm not wrong?
i was referring to you and madcowdisease was a friend from work that i brought here. and you tought me quite a bit, whether you belive it or not.
I dont think the cure crit staves are an issue. What i have an issue with is the scrolls that have three heals. Those need to be either reduced in number or power. Making it offer one heal would make it more balanced
I dont think the cure crit staves are an issue. What i have an issue with is the scrolls that have three heals. Those need to be either reduced in number or power. Making it offer one heal would make it more balanced
Why is that? The scroll is very limited and must be requested to obtain which grants calm for a long time, a considerable amount of lag, and reduces hp/mana/moves leaving the requester vulnerable in every way.
