Feeling guilty

[WagesofSin]

Myrek has just described a feeling that I personally haven't been able to put into words. There is no way to progressively learn the ins and outs of the game, while the PK scene at 50 can be extremely overwhelming for a newbie.

[Chromatic]

Honestly guys, the only things I know are because of a few select players who took me aside IG and taught me. Which I do my best to pass on what knowledge I do have to people I know are newbs. I used to always use a bag and light, because I always forget to grab them, kill the mob carrying the things I want...go to grab the things, and it's too dark. If it wasn't for eshaine giving me that light awhile back I probably would've rage deleted(not just the light, but generally trashy pk and not being able to equip. 5 unghosting kills in a row is cowardice.)

[Pali]

I think part of the problem is that NOBODY encourages pre-50 PK anymore. People who are vamp apps and kill a bunch of people are looked down on. People who are at 40 and kill a bunch of people are told to stop and get to 50. People who kill at 20 at all are instantly considered trashy. However, the flipside is that with a smaller pbase, we simply lack the number of low-ranked active chars needed to really have pre-50 pk get respectable again. Yeah, the game's designed primarily for playing at 50, but the lower levels shouldn't be considered just time spent getting there.

EDIT: And sometime during writing this I completely lost track of where I was going with it... I honestly am not sure how to fix these problems at all, except get a bigger pbase back, and there's not really anything we can do to force new people to play.

[The Lemming]

EDIT: And sometime during writing this I completely lost track of where I was going with it... I honestly am not sure how to fix these problems at all' date=' except get a bigger pbase back, and there's not really anything we can do to force new people to play.[/quote']

I think first we need to start keeping the people we do have. There has been a bunch of people who quit playing because of Lack of RP/imm support/some other reason. I am not here to argue if they are right or wrong, it is their decision and their reasons. However they did leave. I dont know how to fix this but it seems if we can get people to stop leaving then we will eventually start growing.

Oh and it helps to VOTE!

[myrek]

So what is the problem? Is it the size of the player base or is it the "lack of game" pre-50? Which is the cart and which is the horse?

[Cycel]

Let me just say that I stopped playing FL twice (you can never really quit:p) because the game was "meant to be played at 50," and RP plots/imm interaction seemed limited below the 45-50 range. I couldn't find enough to interest me at the lower levels. I left WoW recently for the same reason. The game sucks until you hit 60/70 there, and I'm not entirely sure if it's even fun to play then. So now I'm back, and it seems that now everyone else is saying there's a problem, its more apt to get fixed.

That being said, I agree with The Lemming that the best place to start is to keep everyone interested and entertained. Increased Imm interaction and RP plots are a great way to do this, but thats a demand that may be placing a burden on a small and select group. Leaving that as the only solution also makes it sound like its their fault people have left/are leaving, and its not.

So lets look instead at what makes people stay? For example, people love peer pressure, and feeling like they're part of a community thats equal to them. Its scary as hell to join a new game with absolutely no experience. Thats why for example, every time I start MUDding again, I come here, rather than to AR or Carrion Fields or something. There are a few ways we can turn this into a solution. The first would be to encourage people who already have a cahracter at 50 to roll up new characters, particularly when we get into a top 20 spot at TMS. This makes it look like there's an influx of new players, and to the people that really are new, it gives them a wider group of people to learn from. Maybe we could even encourage people (but never force them) to only have one character at 50, and a slew of side projects.

Whenever someone rolls up a new cahracter, they have a certain "generation" that they usually level up with. If they play at a steady rate, the people they group with are generally the same. Some will powerlevel or get stuck at a certain rank, but for the most part friendships and alliances are forged early on. Maybe another solution would be to encourage veterans to keep any side projects they may have in the same "generation". If it were possible to find someone who were new to the game, veterans could mayhaps level with that person, and try to stay as close to their rank as possible.

Another suggestion may be to extend the Newbie Chat until level 15 or even 20. This will immediately let anybody that is truly new to the game have time to keep learning from vets in an OOC environment well past their desc check, and into the realm of early PK. This becomes increasingly important, when you take into consideration the idea that a new player might join a powerleveling group, and get stranded in terms of information. This also opens up the number of vets who can use the chat to help out new players. By appearing friendlier to new players, we can keep them interested.

Really, its up to us to get new people. You can't just expect people to stumble on FL, and pick up everyhting themselves (even if thats what you had to do). If people are willing to take the initiative to help out people at lower levels, you'll quickly see those players remain interested in the game. When we have a larger playerbase, it will become somewhat self-sufficient: more players means more pre-50 gameplay. More pre-50 gameplay means we'll attract more players.

And has anybody considered spreading the word verbally? Sometimes, you just have to get right down to the basics.

[myrek]

I brought 2.5 people to FL. And no one really likes them. I don't hang out with enough geeks anymore.

[Pali]

I brought 2.5 people to FL. And no one really likes them. I don't hang out with enough geeks anymore.

Yeah, kinda my problem too when it comes to getting new people. Everybody who's into gaming that I know now is too much into flashy graphics.

[Chayesh]

Yeah' date=' kinda my problem too when it comes to getting new people. Everybody who's into gaming that I know now is too much into flashy graphics.[/quote']

I found that the solution to that is remove one of their eyes. Reading text requires no depth perception.

After all, what are good friends for anyway unless they're inflicting some sort of debilitating wound?

[Deykari]

Another suggestion may be to extend the Newbie Chat until level 15 or even 20. This will immediately let anybody that is truly new to the game have time to keep learning from vets in an OOC environment well past their desc check, and into the realm of early PK. This becomes increasingly important, when you take into consideration the idea that a new player might join a powerleveling group, and get stranded in terms of information. This also opens up the number of vets who can use the chat to help out new players. By appearing friendlier to new players, we can keep them interested.

I like this idea. It was proposed a while back, and I can't for the life of me remember the reasons behind the opposition but I think there were some good ones (I'll dig the thread out).

What came out of it though, how about leaving the newbie channel as it is, and simply adding some form of prompt to the player that informs them of the Academy for "additional learning" or something, I don't know. I for one didn't know about the academy when I first started playing here, and as opposed to different clans, the atmosphere is a lot more 'relaxed' in the Academy in terms of the IC/RP requirements - players who have never RPed before can begin learning how to formulate their questions ICly. If they're struggling, there are other players, and the ever-lovable Isadora, at hand to give them a helping hand.

*shrug*

Like I said, there was some opposition to this sort of idea when it was proposed before. Can't remember reasons, but I'm convinced they were good, for some reason or another.

That issue won't address what we're discussing that much, if at all, but I still think it'd be a good idea.

As for pre-50 PK and that sort of thing, I think Myrek has the basis for some good ideas going on in his other thread regarding clans.

I personally don't think there is a problem at all with any pre-50 RP or PK though. On pinnacles and lowbies alike, I have -never- had a problem striking up any sort of RP with other lowbies/pinns provided they aren't busy with PK. And with PK, I find that a lot of people start becoming active in PK at around 25-30, starting with qrace applicants and just other people who feel they're at a rank where PKing becomes a little more feasible without being laballed like an FG Zerk at 15 would against an Elf Battlemage at that rank. Especially 35-50 there's plenty of PKing going on, though between 42-50 most pre-pinn PK seems to involve pinns against non-pinns - no bad thing at all really, if you can run well.

Dey

[EyeSeeU]

i do work.

PUT YER BELLY ON EM SON!

[EyeSeeU]

Yeah it seems the people that I told about the game to way back while it was in beta are not really liked. So I guess that makes me the bad guy. I don't even think they still play, perhaps the one dude, I dunno who cares... You can't really just go around telling random people about this game... I mean it takes the right kinda person who will actually listen for more then 1 minute, and then to have them sit down and start playing.... wow!... that my friends is the hardest part. What I am trying to say here is that we are all Unique, and eventually more Unique people will come here to stay, for however long that is... would be up to them.

[WagesofSin]

I don't think Imm run RP plots and interaction make the game much better. Mostly because only a select few can have fun in them and such plots are few and far between.

What we need is to enhance social-interaction between players. Players should be the ones creating intrigue and RP plots, not the Imms. I would love to see a way for players to create their own "guilds". People should be able to create their own Elven Noble houses, bandit groups, Blademaster Training Dojos, etc. MUDs nowadays need to focus on player interaction, because graphical games like WoW are much better at the Hack & slash aspect than any MUD ever can. I recall people mentioning that the clan system used to be like this back in the day, where you could create your own clan without screwing over your chance of being in a Cabal. That should be brought back ASAP.

My second point is that FL already has intense competition. Look at TMP and ask yourself what does FL have that those other MUDS don't. For me, the only thing keeping me in FL is:

1. Familiarity: I've been playing for years and know where many good pieces of equipment are. I can run from Val to Miruvhor blind and my reactions in pk are almost instinctual. I already know the world of FL and if I go to another MUD I have to start learning over again.

2. OOC community: FL's forum community is great, more or less. The players are more mature than in other MUDS(believe it or not!) but still very light-hearted. I have a sense of belonging to this community and it sucks trying to let it go.

Aside from those two reasons, there's not much else another MUD can't do equally well, and in most cases, does much better. Look at one of our other Diku/ROM-based PK/RP competitor, Carrion Fields. That games does what FL does, but much better. They have tons of updates and are far more liberal when it comes to changes(it's almost impossible to get any new ideas through here at FL without all the Vets screaming that they don't want their old FL changed). A newbie doesn't have those two aforementioned reasons to keep him on FL, he's going to run straight to Carrion Fields(or one of the other dozens of Diku/Rom-based MUDS.

I will also add that FL has an under developed background, history, and universe. The FL world is boring. It's a typical cut and dryed fantasy with your cliche good vs. evil. The areas are uninteresting, many are poorly written. Take a look at the race help files for FL then on Carrion Fields, our competitor. The latter has tons of information on each race, their culture, the way they speak, etc. The FL race files are generic and useless, Non-D&D players would have no idea what to make of them!

You come to FL and it seems the Immplementors either lack the time or are extremely bored with the MUD(or most likely both). Without constant updates and changes, there's nothing to stir a person up about the game.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing FL, I'm not. It's called tough love. I love FL, I grew up with it and I really don't want it to go.

[Questioner]

Only one problem with your say on player created guilds. Not enough people seem to tag along with the guild/rp/whatever. Our pbase is not big enough for player run guilds to be very effective. When andraxus tried to create a seperate clan of pyre burning unholiness, maybe four people 'said' they would join. Unfortunately, it didn't lift off the ground. Korthian was able to get a clan started because he was so well lored at rp and pk. He could actually tell you where every piece of equipment in the land was. It's a great idea to have players interact more on their own initiative, but it isn't exactly a walk through the park.