Pet Loss During Quit

[Iyorvin]

To stop derailing the other thread.

I assume it was taken away because OOC knowledge effecting your RP in game is lame? I agree.

[Iyorvin]

Don't know if this is possible, but what about not losing the pets but them staying where they were? Or, coding zombies to move towards the owner one room per hour? Or some such?

[Evangelion]

I think it was coded to stop people from logging out every time they need to recall away from PK, to get their pets back with little to no danger.

However, I do like the idea of modifying the fix by giving every petclass a pack-call like ability.

[Mister E]

I really like the idea of a pet slowly coming back to you. I still say if you log out and it isnt with you it should be gone but look at the keeper of the crabs, it really doesnt seem hard to get mobs to chase someone accross the lands.

[Tantangel]

I honestly like it this way. It keeps it from being abused like it could have been in the past and like already mentioned, people can recall and quit out with little to no loss to them before. Now they have to actually think about getting their pets back rather than just quitting out.

Instead of the pets slowly coming back to you, how about just making it so that pets can't flee into a Cabal or guild or anything like that. Have the pets belonging to the owner belong to the same Cabal similar to the Cabal specific armor that only members of that Cabal can touch, that the pets couldn't gain entrance to the Cabal because their owner isn't a member of that Cabal. That would eliminate people losing pets that way, but still not being able to log out away from pets and losing them that way. It wouldn't hurt them by doing this because the Necro/Ranger could still go back and get their pets and have another go at it without worrying about losing their pets, unless the person of that Cabal attacks and kills the zombies/ranger pets before the person got back.

[Aulian]

That would be so much coding....

[Ex-D&Der]

I'm glad to see that this has been changed.

[Psycho Child]

I wouldn't mind so much loosing golems, and beasts. But zombies? It takes way too long and alot of risk to get good zombies, especially after they changed a few things a while back. Just because a few people want to abuse a mechanic, I don't think that the whole necro pbase should have to suffer so much. No other class has to spend that much time every time they log on just to be able to pk.

[Ex-D&Der]

I think things had gone a little too far in the other direction. Remember in 1.0 you lost your pets every time you logged out. Now if you at least have to have them with you when you log out (if I'm understanding this correctly) it balances things out a bit. It should be hard to amass the kind of power a necro has with the strongest zombies.

Did you always lose your zombies if you got killed?

[Tantangel]

Doesn't anyone remember that one Necro in I believe early 2.0 who PKed without Zombies? With this minor setback, I think the change doesn't really affect much, other than people wanting to have both the cake and to eat it too. If you don't want to lose your pet, log off in the same room as them. Not very hard really unless they do flee into a Cabal and you can't get in after them. That's when it sucks.

[Kyzarius]

Its FUBAR until we fix...

1, Pets fleeing into guilds, cabals, clans when your fighting the guard.

2, Pets not moving correctly into Desolation or Gear.

3, The inability to properly summon pets. Could get two of three, but that third is always a loss. You summon 1.zombie and 2.zombie but its the same one, then 3.zombie and 4.zombie are the second one and 5.zombie 6.zombie is the first one again.

4, You log off with your pets in the same room but if your gone for a day or two when you come back they are gone...

Really sucks to have worked to get good zombies, invested time in Travens for example, to have the damn thing flee inside some cabal and be non-retrievable. To have two travens, go to get your third and either lose one when your going in or entomb them elsewhere just to have a shift or anomoly poof them on you. Or the worst, gain three travens...thats three shifts...three groups into desolation...just to log off and come back a day or two later to find you are back at ground zero.

And before this argument comes about again, yes in the "old" days you never kept your pets. Obviously this was considered a problem, and an unfair disadvantage to classes that rely on their pets like others rely on shields or weapons. So dont use "in the old days" it was harder, because this is not the old days.

Near the end of Stytnlye I gave up on anything more than drstam or ramik. why bother when you just lose them anyways with no control on your part if you do. Logging in and finding all my pets gone several times can really break the ole morale.

I get frustrated just thinking about it.

[Evangelion]

Doesn't anyone remember that one Necro in I believe early 2.0 who PKed without Zombies? With this minor setback' date=' I think the change doesn't really affect much, other than people wanting to have both the cake and to eat it too. If you don't want to lose your pet, log off in the same room as them. Not very hard really unless they do flee into a Cabal and you can't get in after them. That's when it sucks.[/quote']

Apparently you don't.

It was Onileon, btw. And it's much more difficult for Necros to PK without zombies now, because saves are MUCH more easily accessible.

[Tantangel]

Yeah, I forgot his name. My memory isn't perfect anymore. That's why I rely on you all to remember for me. Hell, if it weren't for my back being operated on, I'd just be happy doing work rather than playing, but unfortunately for me I get to enjoy a second session under the knife so remembering names like that isn't high priority .

Besides, bugproof what Kyzarius said above and it wouldn't have to be discussed. The change was obviously put in for a reason. Then again I don't play Necro's. Maybe the change will make them obsolete for most people and then one day someone will make one, be the next 'bad ***' and people will start trying to copy what he did.

[Iyorvin]

Nah, you won't see another big necro for awhile. Although I agree with the change, he is right, there are too many minor bugs in FL that cause it not to work. Especially if you are losing them in world shifts while they are entombed.

[Celerity]

I think the change was a little extreme and not well planned.

Necros have the same problem DKs do---they rely on builders for strength and balancing. If you want to make them consistently balanced, they need to have a pre-coded mob to summon. DK's could have some sort of summon minion spell that brings up some mob (level or even religion dependent maybe) that is balanced exactly the way coders want it---then you won't have this flip-flopping of making mobs uncharmable. May as well call it charm crab or charm warlock as it is anyhow.

Necro zombies should be able to animate any corpse of the right level and the mob will be the same. Any level 52 corpse will give you that SAME level 52 zombie that while not as strong as Traven (which is a bit TOO strong I think), it should be a very decent zombie. Add some sort of tracking/pack call and make the timer to animate level dependent (level 52 mobs might have a much longer timer between animates then say level 48 mobs). You'll solve your balance issues while keeping necros a timer-prep class. If you want to animate quickly, you'll fall down a couple levels on the zombie. I think it is very bad that necros should be reliant on world shifts for their top zombies. You can easily adjust the timer to whatever you think necros should have to wait for zombies--just don't make it shift dependent.

Necros would be WAAAAY too frustrating to play now, especially if in a cabal.

[TheNewGuy]

... or just fix summon.

[Ex-D&Der]

You do lose them when you die right? If not, I would describe a naked necro with three zombies from Desolation as a bug.

If people are acquiring multiple pets by waiting for world shifts, it's a bug.

Pets fleeing into a cabal is not a bug.

The change to summon was put in so that you couldn't summon 15 tritons to disrupt area attacks.

1.0 was not unfair. It was changed to increase the odds against warriors, who had been dominant at the time. Unbalanced maybe, differently balanced definitely, but not unfair to any particular players, since everyone could play whatever class they wanted. Besides, Luazni, to name one 1.0 necro, was no slouch.

[Kyzarius]

You do lose them when you die right? If not, I would describe a naked necro with three zombies from Desolation as a bug.

If people are acquiring multiple pets by waiting for world shifts, it's a bug.

Pets fleeing into a cabal is not a bug.

The change to summon was put in so that you couldn't summon 15 tritons to disrupt area attacks.

1.0 was not unfair. It was changed to increase the odds against warriors, who had been dominant at the time. Unbalanced maybe, differently balanced definitely, but not unfair to any particular players, since everyone could play whatever class they wanted. Besides, Luazni, to name one 1.0 necro, was no slouch.

1, You do lose them when you die in pk, to a mob, in the arena, or are stunned in any way form or fashion.

2, Traven only exists once a shift. Your statement about shifts makes no sense.

3, Pets fleeing into cabals should be considered a bug, as you CANNOT enter to retrieve them unless you slay the guard and manage to flee past. I do notbelieve this works at all cabals (havent fought all of them recently). Your pets fleeing randomly into the cabal when you flee from combat with the guard is a serious issue really gimping people who rely on pets in combat.

What you said about summon is weird, you can summon numbers of any summonable mob in the game....heck the shout outs about the elite elven guards are due to the knights using them to do what you stated summon was changed to fix. The bug is that 1.zombie, 2.zombie, 3.zombie do not get the zombies and you cant even retireve your third one in thid fashion. I know for a fact you can summon up 5 large elementals from elemental canyon, or several crabs from the sunken ship quite easily. The issue with summoning zombie is amplified by the fact that this is the only method, and has been described by the imms as the only method for retrieving errant pets.

Of course, no imm should get me wrong, I am by far not complaining about the game or time it takes to fix things...just pointing out the issues.

[L-A]

Can you even flee past the guard on cabals now? I know that was prevented a while back - made it really had when cabal members simply sat in the cabal and you couldnt' flee in to get them. Rather, you had to kill the guards THEN try to kill someone who was obvoiusly ready.

If you could flee past the guard then its a simple matter for retrieval - players used to do it all the time in 1.0.

That and make it so zombies return to you when you quit. I don't know why it was judged so unbalanced that it warranted a change. It was a standard necro thing since you invest so much time into getting zombies.

If certain mobs are too strong as zombies, there is an easy fix to stop them being raised ie set a certain mob type. This would seem a far better balancing mechanism than changing the whole 'zombie return to you/not' thing.

I think you'll find Onileon wasn't the necro that killed without zombies (he did grease Ivilizk with a true powerword kill once) - it was one of Morathi's due to a bug exploitation ie powerword kill was dealing high damage (***OBLIT**** I think) regardless of sanc/protection etc and he could get enough damage before you could kill him. I used the tactic myself to see and its was very effective.

L-A

[Iyorvin]

Lmao. I love how everyone just starts throwing out misinformation.

First of all, we can't even talk about whether we can or can NOT flee past a cabal guard.

Second, this change had nothing to do with something being overpowered(at least from my view). It had to do with a player using obvious OOC knowledge to regather their pets. For instance, I am rp'ing my necro who has been separated from its army. My character can't think "Hey lets log off then back in to summon my army!" This is right along the same lines as all those vamps who logged off during day and relogged at night(when they knew they were tracked down).

[Dizz]

How about this: Have zombies/mobs meet you at your recall point. It seems balanced to me.

+ Pets are there and ready for you

- You can be ambushed by people waiting for you to pick them up.

[L-A]

This change had nothing to do with something being overpowered(at least from my view). It had to do with a player using obvious OOC knowledge to regather their pets. For instance' date=' I am rp'ing my necro who has been separated from its army. My character can't think "Hey lets log off then back in to summon my army!" This is right along the same lines as all those vamps who logged off during day and relogged at night(when they knew they were tracked down).[/quote']

That's great in theory - perhaps due to the practicality of balance in the 50 range it needs ot be overlooked in this case?

L-A

[Mmm Coffee]

Well considering that ghoul touch was changed a while back to allow it to be cast while sleeping - i think this change is fair cuz that one was a bit overpowered.

If you don't want to lose your precious Traven zombie, entomb it before fighting a guardian.

[HBwillie]

i'm being too lazy to read all the previous posts, but i just wanted it to be noted that certain cabal charmies just disappear every other time you log off, whether they're in the same room or not.

[Questioner]

Its a bug Hbwillie. The Coders just haven't had the time to fix it.