BigPapa Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Paladin is the good counterpart,,, so what is the difference. Seems to be the consensus that a Paladin is fine at 50 and a DK is gimped? What are the spells/skills that makes one work and not the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Dark-Knights aren't gimped, people just don't know how to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Dark-Knights aren't gimped' date=' people just don't know how to play them.[/quote'] How should they be played, and why doesn't anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Read the dark-knight essay. Experiment with different weaponry/armors/tactics versus different classes. Don't keep malforming the same item over and over - try different items and see what you come up with. Try different religions - they're not all the same. Learn how to malform a weapon and keep it, ie - when to run from a battle, what kind of races/classes you do well against, and can therefore be used as fodder. Experiment with different charmies. If you're going to be in a heated battle, don't pick something that's going to kick your *** if you miss your timer. Learn your banes and avoid them or figure out a way to overcome them. Learn what classes are weak to you, and exploit those advantages. Once you figure out your banes, you can pick a cabal/subcabal that may or may not give you the skills you need to defeat them. You don't always need to be wielding your malform, either - sometimes there are weapons that are better suited to the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I truly appreciate the efforts of your last post. I guess what I mean is why is it not one of the classes that everyone picks. I see good/evil clerics/shaman/healers/ See Rangers/BMG/BLM Thieves/Ninjas etc.. Just no DK's what is it about them .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 They aren't very survivable and are eq dependent. They can kill things but also take deaths rather easily. Any race/class combo that can die easily and requires eq to function well will never be really popular (zerks, non-giant warriors/rangers, dks, bards). Thieves are the exception because they can be fun in other ways! A death is a lot worse than getting a pkill. Even if those other classes can't pkill as easily, in the long run, they have the better kill-to-death ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmm Coffee Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 generally speaking, DK's will die to any bash-happy giant but can do quite well against others. However, with the right charmie and/or preparation, it is possible to avoid that. I suggest trying an avian out if you're going to 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Races to Pick: Avian, Human, Demon Cabals to Pick: Syndicate, Nexus Weapons to Pick: Axes, Polearms, Flails, Whips Armor to Pick: -30ish saves + -10 svsspell, 40ish hit/dam Tactics: Warriors/Berserkers/Rangers Run. Or, if you're braver than me, try to cleave berserkers/rangers. Try to immediately plague warriors (do not attempt to cleave). Use magical weapons (unless they're a magic resist race). Get veil of darkness on to remove their ability to chase. Try to poison rangers to avoid attrition. Use curse to cut off escape, and finish off with offensive spells (fireball/harm). Try to summon rangers away from pets. Battlemages/Invokers Open with cleave (using a heavy weapon), hope they fall asleep. Go for silence if they do, followed by curse, plague, and veil of darkness. If they don't fall asleep, skip silence and go straight to the mals. Monks/Blademasters Land plague and poison at all costs, followed by veil of darkness to help you outrun them while you're using attrition to get rid of their mana. Use axes for blademasters, polearms for monks. Do not try to cleave. Play hit and run with curse, weaken, and some offensive spells (harm, fireball, etc.) Get as many charmies as you can (you can have up to three), and hope for a laglock. If they are in offensive/shadowdancer/bladestorm, use a two-handed weapon. If they are in defensive/deathweaver/kyousanken, dual wield. Ninjas/Thieves/Bards Keep your time in the cities to a minimum. Stay poisoned at all times, and be prepared to fireball if you get blackjacked and wake back up due to poison. Follow with bash (preferably enlarged). Necromancers Open with cleave, preferably with a nodisarm polearm. If that fails, run. Do not attempt to fight a necromancer that you do not get a serious jump on. If you do land cleave, try to silence, curse, and plague. Open and fight with energy drain. A drained necromancer is a dead necromancer (and an illithid can't go into shock without mana). Try to summon away from pets. Clerics/Druids/Healers/Shamans Open with cleave. Land curse and veil of darkness. Follow up with poison/plague, and keep the pressure on wielding two flails, a flail and a whip, or a flail and an axe. Do not let yourself get spelled up - after they land a mal or two, get out of there or you're screwed. Must Masters: Teleport Fireball/Iceball Curse Plague Poison Veil of Darkness Energy Drain Harm Cleave All Defenses All Weapons Spells to have up at all times: Unholy Strength Detect Invis Invisibility Protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Monks/Blademasters Land plague and poison at all costs, followed by veil of darkness to help you outrun them while you're using attrition to get rid of their mana. Use axes for blademasters, polearms for monks. Do not try to cleave. Play hit and run with curse, weaken, and some offensive spells (harm, fireball, etc.) Get as many charmies as you can (you can have up to three), and hope for a laglock. If they are in offensive/shadowdancer/bladestorm, use a two-handed weapon. If they are in defensive/deathweaver/kyousanken, dual wield. I think you got confused with necromancers a little. Also, you can't have unholy strength up at all times or you'll be running around drained half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsestomp Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 You can get 2 charmies with any class that gets scrolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahlos Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Great post Evangelion. DK's are so frustrating to play but they can get really buff. As Celerity said as well, they are very EQ dependant. I would hesitate to attack a decked DK with a malform and a charmie.. OUCH. Veil of darkness is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 DKs are one of the most powerful and offensive classes in the game - however, they take a bit to get used to how they play. Evangelion: I disgaree with a lot of what you posted, however, the way I play DKs isn't the only way :-) Personally, I prefer to play highly offensively. Dual wield + charmie + spells means you can put out a LOT of hurt. I found that communers and casters could be overcome with relative ease due to the pure damag eoutput. Problems happen vs melee's - mostly melee's with staff+pugil. Warriors and rangers. They have enough defense to dull your onslaught of melee damange and can dish out quite a bit of their own. Generally, I tried to get the jump on them and under no circumstances fought them on even footing. That's more about PK skill than DK skill though. Malform weapon is the signature skill of the class - and it is a beauty. Its banned from being spoken about on the forum, but I will say this: Try it, and perservere with it. You will not be disappointed. Why aren't DK more represented? They aren't as survivable as say rangers or clerics. Players are a lot harder to run down than in the 'old' days so (IMHO) classes with surviviablility are more 'in vogue' than those with balls out PK power. I suggest you take one to 50 and see how you go - they really are one of the classes that is incredibily fun to play. L-A PS - if you have one now and want some ideas on how to fight certain classes post up and I'll try to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahlos Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 LA- is the 'o charmie rescue me" thing still working and useful? I havent played my DK for ages coz my level 7 malform got hellstreamed (lol) but I can use some tips.. Would you recommend more HR/DR? Or more ac and saves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tantangel Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Depends on the race really. If you're human/Avian, I'd say hitroll/damroll, if you're a Drow, you can sort of pick between the two though you'll be relying a lot more on mals because Drows don't really have a high hit/dam compared to Avian or Human. At least that's how I've seen it. You could go for damage though, but at 50 the whole fireball tactic wont really work like it did at 30 and Iceball though doing consistant damage doesn't really do you a whole lot either because well, a lot of people at 50 anymore will dish out a lot of pain compared to earlier ranks. Damage for Avian/Human, mals for Drow, though you could try to do a combo of both for either of the races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I count a bought charmie, a charm person charmie, and a potential cabal charmie. I don't know that you could have the scroll charmie too. But you can probably have at least three, if not four. And you're right, DKs don't get weaken. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I don't think weight on weapon matters when cleaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Then you're wrong. Read the help file and/or the code and/or the DK essay and/or Viri's old advice posts when people would whine about how underpowered they were after cleave got toned. Or you could just roll up a DK, and try cleaving with a Divine Reckoning versus a Throwing Axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Depends on the race really. If you're human/Avian' date=' I'd say hitroll/damroll, if you're a Drow, you can sort of pick between the two though you'll be relying a lot more on mals because Drows don't really have a high hit/dam compared to Avian or Human. At least that's how I've seen it. You could go for damage though, but at 50 the whole fireball tactic wont really work like it did at 30 and Iceball though doing consistant damage doesn't really do you a whole lot either because well, a lot of people at 50 anymore will dish out a lot of pain compared to earlier ranks. Damage for Avian/Human, mals for Drow, though you could try to do a combo of both for either of the races.[/quote'] If you try to go straight mals, you will fail and die. With saves the way they are theses days, you will get out attritioned and out damaged, and you'll be at your pit wondering why Tantangel's advice didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirax Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Bring back cleave as a one hit kill stick it back at rank 30 aswell might see more dks roaming around then :eek: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I'm gone for a few years and everyone starts bagging on dkn. You guys suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I played drow dk's, and I went all out pure offense. Dual lvl 10 malforms, 24 dex gives you better defensive abilities, and extra mana to keep unholy up. Kahlos: Not many ordered for the rescue, most just fled/returned/lagged. And yes, it's still viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 What Iyorvin said - I was a drow was well. Pump unholy as far as it will go, dual malforms+charmie for pure offense (with malform changes one malform and one good weapon first). Dirt;flee and return, use your damage spells when you can't lag, curse if they keep recalling on you. I think the only time I cast plauge/poison was on cleaved to sleep players after I summoned them. It happened twice in ~100 kills. Hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt. When you're not hunting, you're sitting in your bolt hole hiding. Don't let other players attack you until you are fully pumped and after them. DKs are a purely offense class. L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Hrmmm. I would have to say to play a Dk you either have to be a pk beast, or you have to be really dirty. Thats the simple fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Hrmmm. I would have to say to play a Dk you either have to be a pk beast' date=' or you have to be really dirty. Thats the simple fact.[/quote'] Why do you mean by 'dirty?' L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tantangel Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 If you try to go straight mals' date=' you will fail and die. With saves the way they are theses days, you will get out attritioned and out damaged, and you'll be at your pit wondering why Tantangel's advice didn't work.[/quote'] Yeah, that's right, it's 17.0 FL right now, right? Now 1.0 is a different matter I was still thinking those times (I'm still new to coming back and getting used to things and trying to remember things since all my IDs and such from computer are a complete loss until I can port my HD over to laptop or somehow get my computer up and running again). If you do go mals, you'll be stuck only being able to kill specific people and no big names because big names will have a lot of saves or a lot of hit/dam and you wont last. Hit/dam usually works, but Drows STILL wont be able to have a decent hit/dam compared to the other two races. Is there any other race besides those three that can become them? If not, could we add some? It'll flavor them up more than what they are and were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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