Paladins, anyone else other than me think they need work?

So does anyone other than me think Paladins need some work? So they are the counter parts of Dark-Knights. Why is it that DKs get every weapon except staff and paladins get as many weapons as a Cleric? Now that is rather odd. I mean a Monk, who cannot use weapons gets 5 weapons! Then they get 4 attacking spells, 1 of which is only against undeads. Sure they get sanc and curing spells, but 3 attacking spells, charge, and some disarms? Wow that's lacking.

Suggestions I think would help them:

Give them Spear and Flail, that would be fun and interesting. I mean after all. When I think Paladin, I think they could use those weapons at least! Whips, Daggers, and Axes do not make sense to me, so keep those out.

Next would be an attack of some sort, maybe trampling people with their horse for a very short lag and some okay damage.

If not that, maybe give them auto flamestrike with the magical strike. I mean really, DKs got a WAY better magic strike.

Just my 2 cents. Honestly I do not see how Paladins are anywhere close to as good as DKs. DKs get lags, tons of spells, a charmie, and malform weapons. Paladins get sanc, some cures, charge, and 3-4 spells. Seems unbalanced to me.

What do you guys think?

I would agree that DKs are way more powerful than Paladins in a strict uncabaled50 vs uncabaled50 manner.

Please take cure blindness poison plague out of magic strike.

Hell, cure serious -used- to be a waste of practice(s) for most players.

Flamestrike seems like it might be a lil overpowered though.

Something about that just scares me.

Paladins, in my opinion, are okay and fine, especially versus dark-knights. While I agree they need something similar to malform weapon, I don't think they need anything else. Magic strike for DK's and Paladins are purposely counter-active versus each other. DK's are naturally more offensive than Paladins, where as Paladins are far more defensive (although, come to think of it, they could use one more defensive spell to come out on top of DK's offensiveness). If you bash a Paladin, they use defensive spells -- none offensive. If you bash a DK, they use offensive spells -- none defensive.

I guess when it comes to it, the big lacker here is the fact that DK's get offense out the ***. Paladins get defense to the minimum (DK's can easily get what Paladins naturally get, while Paladins cannot get the offensive power (through preps) that DK's get). Give Paladins a Holy Weapon.. like perfectly symmetrical to malform weapon. And while it grows, make it defensively cast stuff (cure critical, fly, esuna, accession.. ) etc. I dunno, needs work.

I still believe Paladins should get 2 more weapons. That would be helpful for their "defensive" capabilities. Rather insane that lots of classes have the same or more weapons than a paladin gets. I agree that they need a few more defensive abilities. I mean both classes get protection, sanc is EASY to get these days, and they get what else armor and virtuous light, and that heroism stuff. that's it? wow that's pretty weak compared to DK's spells.

The weapon idea is good, maybe not something as crazy as cure critical. But maybe cure serious and the other curing spells. Maybe some hitgain or something of the sort.

The other part is, why are Paladins so "defensive" oriented anyhow? When I think of a Paladin, I think of a very heroic master of combat on a horse. Not a horse mounted knight that runs for his life 90% of the time.

You forgot Kick. Paladins must have kick.

And that they are total gimps vs neutrals.

This days your best bet on a Paladin is to Go all out in Hit/Dam and try to Outdamage your oponents. Zerk Style.

Holy Weapon makes sense. In fact I would be happy with something I could brand-name.

Is magic strike now curing Blind/Poison/Plague? Cause if it is doing that instead of cure serious, it was a serious down of the skill.

Lets not give a class with cure critical, Hitgain. It's like giving a Ogre Managain. Of little use.

hitgain is never of little use!!

attritionists unite!

In fact, it has been suggested in the past, that Paladins should get Weapon charge associated to charge, just like DK's get to Cleave.

huh?

I mean ... weapon damage type associated with mounted charge.

So if you wield a Fire Lance and you Mount charge something, It will deal Fire Damage.

Same thing with a Air Lance.

Hitgain < Managain.

That 5 Hp's you gain could be 10 mana for a Cure Light.

I like how paladins can't use so many weapons, and I kind of wish DKs couldn't use so many, but unlike paladins, they really need them.

We already have a goodie leveling holy type weapon, so I don't really want to see a second one.

One thing I would like to see is an alternative to heroism. Paladins are heroes, but they are also leaders. So give them a choice, one skill that removes their group but gives better bonuses or a skill that boosts a whole group. That skill is called valor.

It would improve hp/mana/mv regen rates of the entire group by 10% and increase damage/protection vs evil by 5% each. While under valor, anyone with the rescue skill will automatically attempt to rescue a dying groupmember from a killing blow. It would also give special hidden bonuses to cabal charmies. All groupmembers become immune to fear/hysteria.

The normal heroism should make the paladin immune to fear/hysteria as well.

Also, under heroism or valor, the paladin should attempt to rescue any dying good PC in the same room from a killing blow automatically.

If we want to give them a holy weapon, maybe they can get a spell that enchants a weapon to be more powerful vs evil qraces (undead/vamp/lich/demon), causing the weapon to burst into blue flames when fighting them (+2 damroll, +2 avg damage and a flaming flag(second if it has one)).

I really, really like your ideas Celerity. +1.

If we want to give them a holy weapon, maybe they can get a spell that enchants a weapon to be more powerful vs evil qraces **(undead/vamp/lich/demon), **causing the weapon to burst into blue flames when fighting them (+2 damroll, +2 avg damage and a flaming flag(second if it has one)).
As long as its not against all ferals too, I like it..

I like the valor counterpart to heroism, and the proposed heroism changes. Right now, paladins joining either Trib or Knight are screwed in a way that, to my knowledge, no other class is - either don't use one of the class's strongest skills, or don't use your cabal's primary skill (keep in mind that the only cabal a paladin is capable of joining beyond Knight or Tribunal [both pet-focused] is Herald). I'm not aware of such a parallel existing for any other combo (potentially WM rangers... not sure on the particulars of how that plays out).

Other than that, though... I really don't think paladins need anything. I've found that I do better with an elf paladin, pk-wise, than I do with any other combo I've played. Most classes are specialists in some way - paladins aren't. They're just very, very well-rounded. Melee-capable, strong offensive, defensive and curative spells, and never-ending moves.

You all make me want to play a paladin. But its like getting a new pair of shoes, I know they wont fit right. As soon as I get used to them they will be worn out. I guess we all have our favorite classes and its HARD to turn away from the comfortable norm. Man I guess its almost time to roll a Herald.

Jedi, comparing paladins to DKNs is like comparing warriors to invokers.

They are the complete opposite.

Paladin is the representation of Knight and DKN is the representation of Nexus.

The two classes are very well balanced just as the two cabals. Their strong and weak sides are completely opposite, so if you are playing one of the the two classes and find that you would like to have this because the opposite class has it, perhaps you are on the wrong side of the barricade.

I really want to roll one up myself, but I've done it too much recently... I know I'd get tired of it very soon.

EDIT: I wouldn't say paladins and dks are representations of Knight/Nexus respectively... I'd say they are, to some degree, representations of good and evil. Knight and good are not synonymous, nor are Nexus and evil. However, I would agree that direct comparisons between the two are a bad idea - they are very different classes, designed around different concepts and fighting styles, and both excel in very different ways.

Paladins in Trib can use a Blood Guard.

Paladins in Knight cannot use a Knight Charmie

(Under Heroism)

This is my understanding.

I love the idea of a holy weapon for Paladins.

The 'good side' definitely needs a boost of 'cool'.

Paladins' date=' in my opinion, are okay and fine, especially versus dark-knights. [b']While I agree they need something similar to malform weapon, I don't think they need anything else. Magic strike for DK's and Paladins are purposely counter-active versus each other. DK's are naturally more offensive than Paladins, where as Paladins are far more defensive (although, come to think of it, they could use one more defensive spell to come out on top of DK's offensiveness). If you bash a Paladin, they use defensive spells -- none offensive. If you bash a DK, they use offensive spells -- none defensive.

I guess when it comes to it, the big lacker here is the fact that DK's get offense out the ***. Paladins get defense to the minimum (DK's can easily get what Paladins naturally get, while Paladins cannot get the offensive power (through preps) that DK's get). Give Paladins a Holy Weapon.. like perfectly symmetrical to malform weapon. And while it grows, make it defensively cast stuff (cure critical, fly, esuna, accession.. ) etc. I dunno, needs work.

Well if you do not want to compare Paladins and DKs, which are supposed to be counterparts and are not. For reasons that DKs get all of paladins weaknesses but paladins do not get all of DKs weaknesses.

You could compare Paladins to Clerics. Shoot, a combat cleric is better than a paladin in almost every way. They are better in offensive melee and magic, and have the same defensive spells and MORE. Umm, only place paladins win is on actual melee defenses. If you argue it. Honestly paladins can only be more melee offensive if they dual wield, and if they do that they walk around with just 2 defenses. They sacrifice a lot for decent melee offense. Their charge is nice, but that can be easily remedied.

If they are well rounded, how is it that so many classes beat them outright in so many different ways? DKs are just as defensive melee wise, and WAY more offensive. They aren't as defensive magically BUT, they still get protection, and can REALLY easily get the same buffs from consumables. Only place they lose out is curing maladies, which paladins can't put on them anyways so...They get cure light, which isn't nearly as good as cure serious or cure critical. But paladins get uhh....dirt, no wait they don't get that, umm they bash, oh nope not that either, Oh wait, they get trip, nope not that, umm they get more than 3 attacking spells, oh no wait they don't.....It is not balanced for those 2 classes that are supposed to counter one another. Paladins require better buffs that you cannot get, to make them more balanced. Or increase their offensive ability to make it comparable to that of a DK. They do are not NEARLY as defensively buff against magic in comparison to DKs as DKs are as offensively buff compared to paladins.