Paladins, anyone else other than me think they need work?

I know it has been a while, but there have been some very tough Paladins in the past. While I would not mind if they were given paths, I am an advocate of paths for every class. Paths within each guild gives more room to stretch our RP, so we do not end up with every Paladin being heaven bent on destroying evil. While Elite Pkers are drawn to the more powerful, Elite Rpers are often drawn to the more utilitarian.

I understand your argument Jedi, and I can see you have some valid points. But there are some flaws in your way of thinking. They stem from the concept you have of Paladins and Dark Knights, DKs seek power, Paladins do not. DK's serve their gods in hope of more power, Paladins serve men in the name of their gods in hope of pleasing their gods. It literally is Offensive combat vs. defensive combat. A paladin in the right players control, is more than a match for any dark knight. However, when one such paladin rises to power, he is often on his way to becoming a Crusader.

I do agree with Pali, that something needs to be done about the Heroism Skill and its erosion of certain cabal skills needs tweaked.

I really' date=' really like your ideas Celerity. +1.[/quote']

I bet you have a notepad with everyones score in it.

I really liked the charge with weapon attribute damage. Like Backstab:D

You mean, JUST LIKE DK cleave.

Other thing you guys forgot.

DK's get Haggle and Extort. Paladins get ... err to pay full price for every friking thing they buy.

Yes, because a paladin has to buy so much stuff...

You can't buy Sanctuary or Cure Poison/Plague/Blind, which is the only thing a paladin has that a Dark Knight does not have.

Actually you can buy Cure Blind, but Aruncus does not makes discounts, that Evil Druid.

You gotta pay full for:

Gear when you die

Recall Potions

Pills of Teleport

Flight

Shield/Stoneskin

Identify

Invisibility

Everyone is forgetting that flamestrike has an unusually strong ability to blind, very easily, for two incurable ticks. It also works against anyone attacking them, which certainly makes anyones charmie kinda suck in the offense department (aside from lag).

Everyone is forgetting that flamestrike has an unusually strong ability to blind' date=' very easily, for two incurable ticks. It also works against anyone attacking them, which certainly makes anyones charmie kinda suck in the offense department (aside from lag).[/quote'] this is so true.. sup feral ranger, you were saying?

Everyone is forgetting that flamestrike has an unusually strong ability to blind' date=' very easily, for two incurable ticks. It also works against anyone attacking them, which certainly makes anyones charmie kinda suck in the offense department (aside from lag).[/quote']

It does not, provided you don't gimp saves. Can't save a Dirt Kick. But you can save vs affliction a Flamestrike blind.

Said Charmies you are referring to, can also save, becoming resistant to it. The higher level your charmie has the more natural saves he will have to break the roll.

While never as successful as Jibber, I've played alot of paladins... I think I did alright as one, although I was never decked. I fought mostly in Mithril and teeth necklaces/onyx rings with a fire lance/divine right dwielding rods of holiness, and I think I still managed to win quite a bit against similiar dressed opponents, and I think did alright against some that were geared.

I think if magic strike was changed so that it cast useful spells all the time, i.e. if you're not blind maybe put a check in so you don't cast cure blind, go to a cure crit or the like. Also putting flamestrike as a potential spell to be cast, I think would equal things out a bit more. Wrath + Holy word + certain eq does UNGODLY damage imo. Either that or just bump flamestrike back up to its old strentgh before it was nerfed.

I also think they might be easier tweakings then coding new skills, the lack of other weapons, eh, I think the weapon choices has to do with a bit of rp, paladins (holy knights) being chilvaric, didn't use spears, (or staffs really, but meh) Mostly they used swords mace type weapons (warhammer, etc) Lances and bows...heh how about that, give paladins archery

I think Istendil has shown that paladins are not weak, sure he has cabal skills that help alot, but take them away, and you still have a very solid/lethal char.

I think the weapon choices has to do with a bit of rp' date=' paladins (holy knights) being chilvaric, didn't use spears, (or staffs really, but meh) Mostly they used swords mace type weapons (warhammer, etc) Lances and bows...heh how about that, give paladins archery [/quote'] Paladins use "noble" weapons, not crude ones. I always think about it like this, if an american indian likely made and used it, a Paladin would not. The paladin caste is above such weapons. Why they do not get flail is beyond all comprehension, unless its to keep an elf paladin from using a certain elf only flail. No normal bows, but I do not think the code is set up to distinguish crossbows from normal bows.

well flails were more a footmans weapon then a knight, from what i've read, and were trained in the use of a longbow (although it was still considered cowardly/commoners weapon, the training in long bows was for practical reasons). Chivalric weapons be any two handed sword longer then three feet, (battleswords/bastard swords, broadswords) maces, ball and chain (guess its a flail type weapon, but most flails have small heh, balls, not a large spiked one attached to a chain) Lance and Pole-axes (they type that could pierce/chop/and bludgeon).

Also I like Celeritys ideas on Heroism

yep. read it all. and I only wish some of you would spend half of much effort thinking about the ninja. Oh no- wait.... no one-

cares about ninjas,

figures.

so lets revamp somthing else! WOOOOO

I think paladins are pretty ok as is. They certainly don't need anything more vs undead. Maybe something bs demons?

I have done like 1 pally ever, but I felt that was the most secure and capable class I had ever played. Never felt in dager, or worried when getting towards pks. I had a 60/60 hit dam and kurvikhel crushed me with blind and traven, then I went to a balanced setup of lower hit/dam and decent saves and I did not take another death.

I dont really think pallies need anything. Like most buff threads I believe stem from people playing the class improperly. If you have cure critical, why would you ever willingly stay in a fight below 50-60% hp? So on and so on. In my eyes I know how I could make a bmg more playable for myself, but thats only because I have never been able to play bmgs at all. The class itself needs nothing.

If you have cure critical' date=' why would you ever willingly stay in a fight below 50-60% hp? [/quote']

Actually I won the majority of my fights by fighting between 30-40% hp, never going above or below. People tend to stick around if you're hurt (well.. most people).

and its a viable tactic in your style of pk. Personally 30-40% is past my get out and heal range.