I have thought for a while to try to figure out why stance cannot be dispelled. Even playing a couple glads, I never really understood why it couldn't be dipeled. I kinda think at this point in FL that it should be able to be dispeled, espescially since it can be haymakered. I am sure this, like most of my thoughts, will be met with entrenched arguments of NO BECAUSE ITS ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY. I am just gonna say that "it's always been that way" is probably the weakest argument against change. I know people are used to it being that way, I just don't know why it cannot be dispelled, when it can be haymakered and affected by temp storm. Please keep discussion civil, and if you have some personal knocks to take at me, please take it to private messages so I can fire back without anyone catching a ban, and most importantly without turning what could be a healthy debate into a shit show.
WM skills
I see stance as less of a spell and more of a physical stance. Dispel, to *me, *means to remove spells. You could argue monk/blademaster stances being dispelled, but that's a different discussion.
Getting punched in the face really hard is definitely going to make you adjust your stance or fall out of it entirely.
Stance already has a massive drawback that makes up for the inability to dispel it. The Gladiator doesn't gain any cabal points while in their stance. After a long period of fighting, using consumable, executing, and activating melee, you will be burning through some CPs.
EDIT #1: Also, you can't be in your stance while asleep. That is ANOTHER huge drawback. Rangers, thieves, ninjas, vampires, necromancers, bards and psionicists can all force you OUT of your stance to lay on the pain. Even when you're poison, you still drop stance until you wake back up and have to enter it again.
EDIT #2: Fixed as per @Chief
I do think one things to point out about it is, out of all the classes that can drop stance, only two of those classes can be savant.
I agree with Trick's first assesrtion: 'dispel magic' affects magic, and gladiators do not use magic. It seems reasonable their abilities would not be affected by it (same how you can't dispel warcry or berserk, but you can frenzy or bless).
Instead of asking us why it shouldn't be dispellable, maybe you should offer some arguments why you think it should? I think when considering changes, we should have sound reasons for why the change improves the game over the status quo; "it hasn't ever been that way" isn't really much in terms of an argument, and far weaker than "it has always been that way."
5 minutes ago, Archbishop Monk said:
I do think one things to point out about it is, out of all the classes that can drop stance, only two of those classes can be savant.
Warmaster does not battle only Savants. They battle a lot of different cabals for some reason (Avatars if evil, Tribunal if got wanted and they do challenges mostly randomly). So, when you are Gladiator it does not mean that only 2 classes can remove your stance. Also keep in mind that berserkers can haymaker it as well.
1 hour ago, Trick said:
EDIT #2: Temporal Storm already cuts the time of it drastically. I don't know exactly how fast it pulls you out of stance, I could dig through some logs I guess, but that is another avenue to lower the timer of stance which could result in some un-stanced rounds, forcing them to flee and spend time, mana, and CPs to re-stance. Giving the Savant a chance to either run away or press the action.
I can confirm that stance is NOT affected by Temporal Storm in anyway, the timer ticks down as per usual.
As for dispelling, that's a unique perk for being a Gladiator, as mentioned above, stance has glaring weaknesses and I don't believe it should be able to be dispelled.
That's my 2 cents at least.
Self buff, stance and go.
What Glads gain in a sanctuary-like effect not able to be dispelled, they lose in the plethora of consumables and ease of group PvE.
That's fine how it is.
Again im not advocating heavily for it, I just wonder why it cannot be dispeled more than anything. I've never really thought omg stance is OP
2 hours ago, Archbishop Monk said:
I do think one things to point out about it is, out of all the classes that can drop stance, only two of those classes can be savant.
Actually there are technically three classes that can easily accomplish this, and a fourth that can do it with some effort:
Lich, Psionicist, Necromancer, and Shaman.
So ragnomar's gone... And suddenly WM is too powerful again :P :D
Why is opening a discussion on a topic always taken as OMG OP PLZ NERF. Not the case. Just opening a discussion and offering my insight. Saying stance is OP is basically saying sanc is op. I never said anything about OP, nor do I believe anything is OP about it. Just thought maybe making it a similar liability to sanc would be ok since it is also a huge source of hit dam
Well, probably because you posted this conversation in the 'Ideas and Suggestions' subforum instead of 'General Discussion'. Usually, people come here when they advocate for a specific change or want something implemented, and use the other forum simply for.. well.. general discussion.
I don't even think blade master or monk stances should be able to be dispelled with any method of magic.
I don't know alot about WM skillls, but just frpm what I glean from this convo it seems to me like if stances are dispellable, they should not drop when you sleep.
I don't know. I think stance is fine the way it is. My problem is When Shamans are Savants fighting Warmasters. They can't effectively Blind/Plague/Poison. I think its far to easy for a Warmaster to remove these things. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a Savant Shaman.
I'd still say Savant shamans are some of the strongest combos in the game. Sure, you can't blind them easily and have it stick, but that doesn't mean you can't blind them. It is just that you have to be quick on the chase with a shaman. But, no Warmaster should ever kill you easily if you armor right. Unless it's another Danpher, which can't happen.
Well I'd like to see them get full from eating these mad amounts of body parts.
1 hour ago, Izzzzy said:
Well I'd like to see them get full from eating these mad amounts of body parts.
What about drinking potions? A lot of water, soda, beer, whatever fills you up IRL. Potions would be the same yeah?
Adding a full affect only means your fight will go on for a few ticks before they run away, effectively reducing the amount of time you get as a shaman to fight and wear them down and win. You want the fight to go as long as possible as a shaman to land the win.
two things. #1 if they are already full, they cant eat the pills.
The second what if there was a wand that you could zap to "feed" someone?
1 hour ago, Trick said:
What about drinking potions? A lot of water, soda, beer, whatever fills you up IRL. Potions would be the same yeah?
Adding a full affect only means your fight will go on for a few ticks before they run away, effectively reducing the amount of time you get as a shaman to fight and wear them down and win. You want the fight to go as long as possible as a shaman to land the win.
I think it makes sense where you can't drink a million potions.
Most games have cooldowns, and I'm all for cooldowns on using consumables. Thats my point. This unlimited Potion herbs pills to me is nothing I've ever seen in any other game, and it also ruins what makes a mage for me. When a Warrior can have Armor, shield, stone skin, flesh armor. This is not a warrior anymore. It ruins it for me.