Make saves really matter, that's all I'm saying. This way you can't just circumvent saves with a Cabal. I've never seen a Cabal able to do so much damage with so little saves, which brings us back to the original post. Want to be a gladiator and have unlimited Sanc. Get some saves. You should'nt just be able to eat stuff and be done with it. There should be drawbacks to this. Plus at trusted you get deadly abilities.
WM skills
Their consumables have the lowest possible chance to cure maledictions in the game. Saves still very much matter.
1 hour ago, 'tarako said:
Their consumables have the lowest possible chance to cure maledictions in the game. Saves still very much matter.
They might have the lowest, but they are also able to stock them the easiest. Everyone else has to compete with the rest of the playerbase for them. A lot of Pks happened when a good shaman logged on and there was mass PKs happening around Lerant fighting over who gets the dark red potions.
Edited
Yea I suggested giving them a rot timer so they can't stack as many as they want
2 hours ago, 'tarako said:
Their consumables have the lowest possible chance to cure maledictions in the game. Saves still very much matter.
You make agreeing with you so hard. That's all I'm going to say. No they don't matter when you can stack all mental and not worry about mals at all. You just stockpile a shit ton of bloodwolf eyes, and call it a day. You can't buy an unlimited suply of gyvels and reds, because they have to be farmed. You have to SPEND HOURS doing it, and if you do this you deserve them. Hitting buy blood 100 times is not the same thing as farming, and anything else they buy. You buy enough, eventually it will do the job. I don't want to hear anything about CP's, because Cp's are easier to gain then gold. You just sit online and get them.
It takes, with normal gains, about 5 minutes for enough cp for an eye. It takes 3.5 , minutes to get gyvels on trigger. Also, have you played a wm? 100 eyes is 1000 cp. Around 500 minutes not being stanced. I agree they can cure a bit too easily, but you are grossly overstating the amount of consumables people carry.
20 minutes ago, 'tarako said:
It takes, with normal gains, about 5 minutes for enough cp for an eye. It takes 3.5 , minutes to get gyvels on trigger. Also, have you played a wm? 100 eyes is 1000 cp. Around 500 minutes not being stanced. I agree they can cure a bit too easily, but you are grossly overstating the amount of consumables people carry.
I will agree it is more costly than people think. But, at the same point, most of the characters I play have near 4k CP before they ever join a cabal just from doing quests around the lands. That's at least 400 eyes I could buy at being an inductee. Mind you, I play differently than most about that, but it is still possible.
3 hours ago, 'tarako said:
It takes, with normal gains, about 5 minutes for enough cp for an eye. It takes 3.5 , minutes to get gyvels on trigger. Also, have you played a wm? 100 eyes is 1000 cp. Around 500 minutes not being stanced. I agree they can cure a bit too easily, but you are grossly overstating the amount of consumables people carry.
You can't farm gyvels while a shaman is trying to kill you. You will run out. You can buy more eyes. Get real.
you arent gaining cp while in active pk anyway. Get off your high horse for a minute, stop making some personal vendetta against me. Shit gets old real fast. I am raising valid points, and I am doing it out of FAIRNESS when considering how things may need changed. If your argument is you cant farm gyvels with a shaman, I respectfully disagree. A shaman has 0 control over where a fight takes place. If I wanna lead that shaman off to where I want, then run past aruncus and macro a gyvel potion, that shaman can do nothing about it. Rogues, druids, and merchants can also preserve gyvel herbs that you can cash in whenever you want.
I understand WM having on tap consumables is an advantage, but there is no need to make it out to be such a huge advantage. You get so angry when you encounter a problem in the game, then will adamantly argue against any advantage you have that may be imbalanced (see puerilaug ignoring spell-turning thread). I try to set aside my personal feelings, and look at both sides of the issue before getting this spitefully entrenched in my position. Dunno if imms can verify it, but I have advocated for far more changes that hurt my specific combo than I have ever advocated for changes to make my playtime easier. You see my bringing up counterpoints as some disagreement to your original point. I am bringing up all aspects of the argument so things do not get overlooked amid the torch wielding mob.
9 hours ago, 'tarako said:
It takes, with normal gains, about 5 minutes for enough cp for an eye. It takes 3.5 , minutes to get gyvels on trigger. Also, have you played a wm? 100 eyes is 1000 cp. Around 500 minutes not being stanced. I agree they can cure a bit too easily, but you are grossly overstating the amount of consumables people carry.
Yeah you're off on that by half, unless the cost has gone up on bloodwolf eyes.
Also keep in mind you can get 70-90ish cabal points by doing a 3 minute guild quest and buy 15 plus.
15 hours ago, 'tarako said:
Their consumables have the lowest possible chance to cure maledictions in the game. Saves still very much matter.
Just want to point this out for those people who lean on red potions: them and bloodwolf eyes are the same if that shaman is wearing any +mal gear. A DK needs more +mal gear for the same effect.
Everyone else, they're not bad against.
I digress a bit.
For those people who are curious as to just how often the lizard testicles cure poison, load up on a bag of these:
`Object 'pear' is type pill, material plant.
Extra flags: none.
Weight is 1, value is 530, level is 6.
Level 6 spells of: 'cure poison'.`
They can be found due north from the entrance of the Cloud Kingdom.
You've got the same chance with these as you do the testicles for any poison above L34.
Don't forget to keep count of the failures as much as the successes.
Then after using these for a couple days against poison casters, imagine the same chance for blindness with limited inventory space.
I'm not touching the WM item set though. That's a different beast entirely and while I know what you need to wear to proc what curatives, I don't know how often those proc.
7 hours ago, 'tarako said:
A shaman has 0 control over where a fight takes place. If I wanna lead that shaman off to where I want, then run past aruncus and macro a gyvel potion, that shaman can do nothing about it.
What you can do, a shaman can do, too. As a shaman, I'd definitely collect that gyvel myself just to deny you it. Or wait for you nearby if I believe you're coming through. It then becomes a game of "who can get to it first."
1 hour ago, Zoichan said:
Yeah you're off on that by half, unless the cost has gone up on bloodwolf eyes.
Also keep in mind you can get 70-90ish cabal points by doing a 3 minute guild quest and buy 15 plus.
Twenty minutes of doing guild quests, you can have enough to purchase life insurance, and use it.
Another twenty allows you to bind your favorite five items to you.
An hour gets you that 1500 CP item you're wanting.
Getting that much for defeating the Pitlord is one thing. Not a 3 minute fetch quest.
In my opinion, CP given by guilds should be cut to about 10% of their current value.
1-5 for an easy.
5-10 for a medium.
10-15 for a hard.
You're still doing something in your down time, but you're not devaluing CP like the current state of gold.
@'tarako who has a personal vendetta against you? My high horse? You think I go to bed thinking how can I kiss off 'tarako? Don't derail the thread with nonsense.
I suggest you continue the discussion and stop going after one another. If you do there will be consequences. Thank you, folks.
Izzzzy you have made dozens of snide comments, and digs, at me for over a year. You have done it here, and in discord, when I am completely uninvolved in the situation you bring me into. At least own up to the fact that an accidental tag has caused an ooc grudge. I am asking that it stop because as I said the shit gets old, and I genuinely do not gang tag, its happened twice in 3 years both times accidents. Telling someone get real? Like im not playing warmasters, and against them? My opinion is being formed from both sides of this argument. And again, I am 100% not afraid at all to say the combo I am playing is too strong. I have done it with my ninjas, druids, werebeast, fury zerk, piercing note bard among others. My base want is the game to be fun for everyone, I could give a crap less if I am dominating. i am not asking anyone to agree with me either, I want you to form your own opinion. What I do think is reasonable is that the points I make be taken into consideration for what they are. I am only trying to bring up every aspect of a discussion so the situation can be talked about including every detail, not just from the perspective of someone that is trying to use mals against a cabal that can cure mals easier than anyone. I have played the warmaster, and I have played the person trying to kill the warmaster. I was playing a DK fighting the pre nerf jaguar. I understand how frustrating it is to cast 50 mals to land 2, then they are cured the same tick. It just isnt as reliable, or as easy to farm, as people make it out to be.