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Cabal Reorganization

Overall, I really like the basic concept you're running with: trying to consolidate things so that people would be less alone and have more interaction.

However, the main concerns I have regarding this so far are the alignment/ethos limitations. Right now, a good chaotic has three cabal options - under this, it'd have none. Many other combinations that currently have multiple options would be limited to one or two subcabal choices at best. While in a sense I like that this greatly defines exactly what the cabal members are and what they are supposed to be doing, the smaller number of options also vastly limits RP potential. We may as well just have people picking what cabal they want at chargen rather than picking their align and ethos.

any one know which other cabals are that way so I know which to avoid?

WARMASTER wants YOU to come and flay, slay, hurt, bash, smash and just genearlly molest ALL AND SUNDRY who bother my Titan. Rest assured that just because there are 5378925789142378392 WARMASTERS on if I find you sitting in Discord while someone beats up my Titan I'll shove my foot so far up your @$$ that the water on my knee will quench the thirst in the back of your throat.

Now I think we understand each other.

Lytholm.

I like the idea, but my one concern was already mentioned. If it's 2vs1, the large number of characters in the 2 is just gonna overwhelm the 1. Some people like being the underdog, but nobody wants to die 10 times every time they log on. Have you every played risk, or any other 'tactical/strategic' game with 3 people? Either two people beat on each other until the 3rd wins because the others are far too weakened, or two gang up on one until they're totally obliterated.

For this reason, I think there should be 4 cabals, though I'll be damned if I can expound on an idea you've already thought through so thoroughly Celerity.

As it stands now, we see the top pkers taking care of all of the cabal warfare and the rest of us just idling or trying to avoid those top pkers for as long as possible.

THIS - IMO - is exactly what is wrong with cabals at the moment. People in cabals are sooky-la-la's who don't want to man (or woman) up and fight the strong players. They want to hide. They want to run. They want to nance through the fields playing with bunnies and smelling flowers. Don't get me wrong - there is a place for players who want to do this in FL, however, that place is not in a cabal. I don't know how to say it any other way other than:

IN A CABAL EVERYONE FIGHTS, NO ONE QUITS. At least, that is how it SHOULD be. These days its not always quite like that due to the aforementions sooky-la-la's.

Perhaps if the current players decided to stand up for themselves, take a cup of concrete and do what Pikachu would do then it wouldn't be so 'boring' as you claim it to be.

Other reasons I don't like this system:

  1. Can I kill those in different subcabals but the same cabal as me? No. That's less targers right there. With 8 people in 8 cabals I have 7 targers. With 8 people in 3 cabal I have at best 5 or 6 targets.

  2. Pali already identified the very limiting factors posed by this. I don't agree on being so restricted by align/ethos. Having cabals with a wide range keeps things interesting - on both a cabal vs cabal and cabalmate vs cabalmate level.

Cheers,

L-A

Although the concept is stellar, and appealing. I doubt it could be implemented without 100% changing everything that FL has been up to now. I have gone back and read alot of your ideas, and you have so many great suggestions, like the one about class customization with berserkers as the example. I really did love it, and really wish there was more response to it. This just seems like a complete revamp of all that is the forsaken lands. You get well over an A+ for effort, I just can't see this happening without literally making a new mud.

I see alot of threads about this changing FL, and it not being FL anymore. Looks to me, as cosmetic changes to promote interactions and RP, while taking it a little easier on the non-vets.

I look back at the threads about declining PBase and say, FL needs a change. Everyone seems to have this what isnt broke dont fix attitude, and yet when you go look into the decline on the pbase threads something IS wrong, and needs to be fixed.

Unless of course people are content with the mud limping on until it finaly dies?

I like the idea of having this level of change to the game.

I think it will re-light a lot of old fires and break down the walls of monotony.

I do not, however, think this is the right way to do it.

The cabal system is what the main problem is, I believe. I think this because it makes a people think of what combo they want to be before they roll the character, and they will hammer their rp around that... Ideally, they would have an rp and then mold their class/cabal around that.

I think a good way to solve this is make this "capture the flag" nonsense less important. Make being in a cabal more rp oriented than it is pk oriented. You want T? Then voice your ideas for how this cabal should be run, what we're after, and what we have to do to obtain what we're after. As it is, its like good vs. evil, might vs. magic, control vs. freedom, and nature vs. civility. A lot of cool things can happen amongst that broad spectrum of outlooks. I just think that the whole standard capturing and defending takes a lot away from the RP standpoint of the game. Maybe you're with an eclectic group or in the middle of some story-changing RP. "Oh damn, cabal is under attack, gotta go."... That right there takes away so much from what could be.

I don't know if this sounds stupid. Honestly, to me the whole capturing standard thing is what kills a lot of RP monkey time. Which in turn makes rolling a character more straight pk perk oriented... because you want to be the indominable force in your cabal. No rp logic in that character, no sir.

applause

If someone attacks my house' date=' I don't sit around and have tea because the little woman is handling it. We both would roll. I really don't understand not responding to an attack.[/quote']

The problem I see is that different immortals have different requirements, different rules, no matter if it comes to cabal warfare or promotions. Just as some immortals promote faster than others, the same way Anume allows 5 people to defend against one and Haesierph doesn't.

I've talked about this with the IMMs on prayer forum before and the different standards is one of the things which is pissing me off very much.

Some people don't know those standards and since there are different standards for different cabals it can be really frustrating for newer players and not just those who are new. Hell I don't even know what my current immortal thinks about more than one characters defending the alter against one attacker and I've been in that cabal for more than 300 hours now.

On the other hand I've had situations where I am attacking the enemy and he is simply sitting inside his cabal. When I get the standard, he comes and retrieves it in within a matter of seconds. Over and over and over and it gets quite frustrating when you see that same person advancing faster in his cabal than you in your own.

Thats why I believe that creaton of hard rules concerning cabal warfare behaviour and promotions are much more important than such major re-organizations of the cabals.

Just my 2 cents.

I like the idea of having this level of change to the game.

I think it will re-light a lot of old fires and break down the walls of monotony.

I do not, however, think this is the right way to do it.

The cabal system is what the main problem is, I believe. I think this because it makes a people think of what combo they want to be before they roll the character, and they will hammer their rp around that... Ideally, they would have an rp and then mold their class/cabal around that.

I think a good way to solve this is make this "capture the flag" nonsense less important. Make being in a cabal more rp oriented than it is pk oriented. You want T? Then voice your ideas for how this cabal should be run, what we're after, and what we have to do to obtain what we're after. As it is, its like good vs. evil, might vs. magic, control vs. freedom, and nature vs. civility. A lot of cool things can happen amongst that broad spectrum of outlooks. I just think that the whole standard capturing and defending takes a lot away from the RP standpoint of the game. Maybe your with an eclectic group or in the middle of some story-changing RP. "Oh damn, cabal is under attack, gotta go."... That right there takes away so much from what could be.

I don't know if this sounds stupid. Honestly, to me the whole capturing standard thing is what kills a lot of RP monkey time. Which in turn makes rolling a character more straight pk perk oriented... because you want to be the indominable force in your cabal. No rp logic in that character, no sir.

I think this is a very interesting post.

The problem I see is that different immortals have different requirements, different rules, no matter if it comes to cabal warfare or promotions. Just as some immortals promote faster than others, the same way Anume allows 5 people to defend against one and Haesierph doesn't.

I've talked about this with the IMMs on prayer forum before and the different standards is one of the things which is pissing me off very much.

Some people don't know those standards and since there are different standards for different cabals it can be really frustrating for newer players and not just those who are new. Hell I don't even know what my current immortal thinks about more than one characters defending the alter against one attacker and I've been in that cabal for more than 300 hours now.

On the other hand I've had situations where I am attacking the enemy and he is simply sitting inside his cabal. When I get the standard, he comes and retrieves it in within a matter of seconds. Over and over and over and it gets quite frustrating when you see that same person advancing faster in his cabal than you in your own.

Thats why I believe that creaton of hard rules concerning cabal warfare behaviour and promotions are much more important than such major re-organizations of the cabals.

Just my 2 cents.

The "in-game" rules differ from the actual "ooc" rules of the game. As per the actual OOC game rules, ganging/tagging/multikilling etc. to a certain degree isn't against the rules at all (qclas/race aside) - any penalties you receive for doing this are typically in-game, IC punishments. Taking Knight as an example, an "in-game" rule is that I want to see equal numbers fighting at all times, even at the cabal. Breaking this rule isn't actually breaking the OOC game rules, but breaking the in-character code of conduct that Haesierph expects Knights to live by, for his reasons and hence the punishment is an IC punishment. I compensate for the stricter rules in comparison to other cabals in other ways however. In this respect, I am against the idea of creating "hard and fast rules" on cabal warfare/promotions - different cabals have their individual 'codes of conduct' on what is acceptable and what isn't and come with their individual advantages and disadvantages.

  1. I hope my post wasn't viewed as an attack on Haesierph. I just find that kind of warfare unappealing.

  2. I agree that every cabal needs its own angle, therefore its own rules. Caveat 1: Rules against the idea that the world is in the middle of a nasty war boggles my mind. Caveat 2: The staff should be careful when announcing rules through this forum or in-game notes. I'm sure many of us have seen headaches caused by rule miscommunication.

I liked the rather far out new approach to the cabal system and I think we need more brainstorming ideas like this.

"Caveat 1: Rules against the idea that the world is in the middle of a nasty war boggles my mind."

I do not agree that FL world is in the middle of a nasty war.

There are times this happens, ... the somewhat recent no-sun, demons everywhere plot. But most of the time this does not happen.

What happens is that cabals fight each others, and sometimes control of a territory shifts.

Nothing happens to major cities or fortresses.

Outside of cabals there is no combat, except some fanatical murderers.

Hoo and by the way Knight King quest roleplay has to go, it's the most non sense non interesting thing on cabals, even compared to old "Warmaster hate for magic".

No Mya the quest for the King is the reason why there are Knights. The Praetorians and Sigils spread hope and purity across Aabahran, it is their goal to one day crown one who can rule all of Aabahran the way they see fit. I think the very essence of such a belief is critical to the Knight Cabal, without it Knights would seem rather silly to me actually.

As for the poll, in theory I like the idea. Most interestingly enough would be the crazy events and rp spawned from it. As for why I think it wouldn't work... I am not really sure that it wouldn't or would. I think I have hit the fence here, I am all for change but is this what needs to be changed? Like I said, I don't know.

I think the very essence of such a belief is critical to the Knight Cabal' date=' without it Knights would seem rather silly to me actually.[/quote']

Agreed. Without the goal of restoring a King to the throne, the Knights are left with only "we want to make the world a better place... somehow... well, we kill evils, and that's a start!"

"I do not agree that FL world is in the middle of a nasty war."

That is why I asked the Imms to explain the world's present condition. There are four groups marching army after army through the lands. There are two groups that openly and directly attack the cities with their armies. If you can't see the war, I wonder if the problem is the lack of a basic historic understanding of what war is like or if you simply cannot see RP that isn't spelled out for you.

Besides if the world is such a peaceful place, why would we play? We'd just use a chat room.

I think the very essence of such a belief is critical to the Knight Cabal, without it Knights would seem rather silly to me actually.

Agreed with that and agreed with Myrek as well.

No, the quest for the King is a lame RP that suports the Knights.

There has not been a King for ages. There will not be a King ever again.

If there was a King he would be dead from old age.

**It makes no sense. **

Knights do not try to take the lands of the King, (Cities) from under the Tribunal rule. And the Knights are not Lawful. How can the good supporters of a King, the symbol of Order be forcefully non Lawful ?

The knights should be the army of Order, making the advance of structured civilization. Not a group of loonies searching for a non existing king.

For me Knights RP is a very badly adaptation of LoTR Gondor lost king thing.

No, the quest for the King is a lame RP that suports the Knights.

There has not been a King for ages. There will not be a King ever again.

If there was a King he would be dead from old age.

**It makes no sense. **

Knights do not try to take the lands of the King, (Cities) from under the Tribunal rule. And the Knights are not Lawful. How can the good supporters of a King, the symbol of Order be forcefully non Lawful ?

The knights should be the army of Order, making the advance of structured civilization. Not a group of loonies searching for a non existing king.

For me Knights RP is a very badly adaptation of LoTR Gondor lost king thing.

I have to dissagree here, the Knights are non-lawful because they do not follow the laws or only follow them when it suites their purpose. (that is the laws of trib or back in the day justice) BUT that is not to say they do not follow all laws, if they put someone on the throne they'd swear fealty to the king since they were trying to put him there in the first place and hence they'd follow the decrees that he sets forth. And honestly so what if its a ripoff of LotR We had the home town of the War of the Lance heroes in game forever and heck Caramon is STILL sittin in Falen Dara its ok to borrow from time to time.

OH and I like the idea but I agree with Pali and LA about the align ethos thing i hate being THAT restricted by those. BUT the choosable cabal skills would be freakin sweet! keep the ideas comin celerity because they always are well thought out and thats what this game needs.

I like Celerities idea to fix the cabal system, but I think her whole system and scenario is a little wack. We just need to re-work the system that we have, maybe re-write some background on them. Like, why do they all have to be at war all the time? Knight and Nexus should be able to be like... doing their own thing... sure, they're likely to go at it more than with any other cabal, but it doesn't necessarily mean they have to. I just think they should revolve more around politics and not war.