I dont think that DK's charmies should be able to bash at all, or even as much as they do. The DK's get bash as a skill so why should they need 1 or more pets that can bash as well? Ideas?
Charmed pets for DKs
Cause 2 bashes are better than 1!
I don't think bash is a big deal, for most classes. Most spell casters if not all have protective shield, giants are so affected by it, it's just a small bit of damage and minor lag. Blademasters if prepared arn't affected. Smaller warriors and other melee types have the option of getting something that will enlarge you which will pretty much give you the same affect as being a giant.
Dark knights probally infact have more trouble with their own mobs bashes than enemies have problems with them. Countless times have I taken advantage of a warlock turning against the DK, and keeping him bashed in combat.
IMO of course, probally need some more feed back.
Have you ever pinned a DK? First, charmy bashing isn't entirely reliable, no matter what the charmy is. Second, as Ali noted, a charmy who bashes is a huge risk for the DK as well. Third, excepting a single qrace, not a single DK race is giant-sized, so the bash of the DK himself is significantly weakened. Frankly, of all the classes I can think of, the only ones that really get hurt (at least early to middle of the fight) by a DK AND charmy bashing are ninjas, thieves, bards, rangers and paladins... any pure melee class should be out-meleeing anyways (and usually will be giant sized, negating a lot of the bash lag - which doesn't stack, by the way), and all casters/communers have prot shield.
If your charmie is reliable enough to bashlock a pally you are having a good day. Play the lotto. I was never once DK bashlocked as Reazal, granted I only crossed a few DKs. I don't think I spent more than...3 rounds bashed provided I remembered to enlarge.
If your charmie is reliable enough to bashlock a pally you are having a good day. Play the lotto. I was never once DK bashlocked as Reazal' date=' granted I only crossed a few DKs. I don't think I spent more than...3 rounds bashed provided I remembered to enlarge.[/quote']
Agreed. Neither rangers nor paladins should truly be fearing simple bashlock by a dk (discounting malforms and their effects). A bit more in the way of tactics is still required (and I rather like the new changes in enhancing this).
Heh, Dk's charmies bashing is about the last thing I'd be complaining about.
I am more concerned about:
Ninjas - they seem to be able to get a full study on someone alot quicker then I previously remember. It seems like only a matter of hours (maybe 4 or 5) and they can reliably assassinate someone. I'd be afraid fighting one I could see, let alone one that is hidden. It is stupidly easy to dance around an area skirmishing/tailing someone for a few hours. If the person is after you, its certainly their doom. The thing you can do I believe is run the hell around. Even after a VERY VERY long break, I can still manage to dance around an area and evade someone indefinitely. The old saying used to be stay away from the cities, well, I am changing it to just stay away from them (ninjas) in general. I am pretty sure they forget about their target much slower then they gain knowledge about them. I suggest this needs changing. And possibly making study a command with lag that is only usable once every hour or two. The amount of people that can see hidden is very slim. Hide in itself is a MASSIVE bonus.
Archery rangers peeve me as well. Seems all they do is run around and shoot. Once again, its easy to avoid someone, the shoot lag doesn't seem terribly long. Yes, there are some things you can do to help alleviate this pain, however, in a number of situations, they are not viable.
At this stage, I've seen constant mains to lacerates from arrows (through sanctuary, no vuln). The effects they can add is unreal. One certain effect I bloody hate and I think only very very few classes should have access to it. (PS are the effects from arrows saveable like their equivalent spell?). Now, this sort of unblockable damage is the exact reason shadowstrike got changed. IMHO, noone should have unblockable combat damage like that. All you have to do is deck out and go defensive (nice staff or whatever) and you're quite comfortably going to out damage anyone. I've seen a good number of high level fights where landing blows are quite few and far between. I've played a ranger pre these changes and never really found them lacking. I had no issues rolling people, even as a warmaster inductee (and you know what that means).
Now, I dont know what sort of lag you get on shooting an arrow from a distance (but I suspect its a single round). I suggest this be increased to two rounds. I also think that they should be blockable by some means, whether it be shield block or dodge skill, or, have them miss quite a bit in combat (who can maintain good accuracy with a bow in combat, bows are known to be utterly useless at melee range). Possibly even make them disarmable.
I dunno, I am just throwing ideas around here, but after my experiences I am seriously concerned. I think beastmaster rangers are seriously lacking compared to the other paths.
The ability to track someone down (which is exceptionally easy with the small playerbase) is very very very powerful, especially against certain combos (psi and vamps especially for reasons that cant really be discussed) to the fact where I'd almost call it overpowered. I've played my fair share of vampire, and also fought my fair share. If I had a way to track them, let me just say, it wouldn't be worth your time of day to play one. As it was, I already had fair success at tracking them without such skills, and sticking a stake in a few few. Not to mention if they gain the upper hand on any combo, they've a very good chance of hunting you down and finishing you, which, IMHO, is about 100 times harder then beating the crap out of someone in battle, so any assistance in this regard a MASSIVE bonus. I know there are ways to get around this skill, but anyone with half a brain (which is more or less the whole playerbase nowadays) will have no issues picking up the scent and knowing the few areas they may have been capable of fleeing to.
As a disclaimer, I've not played either of these combos, so I am happy to hear EDUCATED opinions. These are things that just scare me to death. I'd much rather an enlarged fire giant dk with an enlarged warlock bashing me then facing either of the above. At least if you are getting bashed, you can still manage to out fight them.
Have you ever pinned a DK? First' date=' charmy bashing isn't entirely reliable, no matter what the charmy is. Second, as Ali noted, a charmy who bashes is a huge risk for the DK as well. Third, excepting a single qrace, not a single DK race is giant-sized, so the bash of the DK himself is significantly weakened. Frankly, of all the classes I can think of, the only ones that really get hurt (at least early to middle of the fight) by a DK AND charmy bashing are ninjas, thieves, bards, rangers and paladins... any pure melee class should be out-meleeing anyways (and usually will be giant sized, negating a lot of the bash lag - which doesn't stack, by the way), and all casters/communers have prot shield.[/quote']
The pure melee classes won't be outmeleeing the DK if he has his pet rescue, and that is when the bashing occurs.
Dirk kick prevents orders.
Bashing the DK prevents Orders.
Thieves backstab. Ninjas assasinate. Bard.... suck.
Rangers have pets that trip.
DK charmie bashing is nothing. With the exception of Warlock lucky star of doom. Which the DK also suffers.
I only half agree with Krins and Pali.
It's not the fact that the charmie bashing is unreliable, but the way I think of it is this:
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If you are able to be bashed because you don't have protective shield or balance, then you are probably a melee character. If you are a melee character, the only thing you have to worry about is not letting the charmie rescue the DK, because you should be comfortably outmeleeing them.
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If you are able to be bashed because you simply don't have protective shield up, you are an idiot, and deserve to die.
I would, however, like to see a separate thread started about ninjas, because I would love to discuss them.
I think Tot touched on some very real issues.
Assassinate IS too easy these days. Falcon eye is disgusting.
Arrows are too strong and too many classes get them.
Ranger arrow types seem oddly powerful for a huge variety of reasons. Have you ever fought a ranger and been put to sleep every round, letting him re-initiate whenever he wants? Let him flee or continue at his will? Been attacked with sleepy arrow from afar, put to sleep, and repeatedly been shot while being put to sleep? I have. I couldn't even get a brew out.
I also agree about the track skill. What other track skill is even almost that good? None! Track used to suck horribly. You used track and it would say, "west." Lol. Now it gives them an easy to follow path. This is 100% better than even a very limited use qclass skill. Since when are the non-qclass versions of something actually better than the qclass?
my only remotely related .02 is that dirt;flee;shootshootshootshootshootshoot is about the most dumb thing in this game. it happens all the freaking time. wonder why??? i dont really think that a system/gameworld built and based on "engagement" has any place for that. why cant bards and thieves throw one room away or something? stone giants should be able to chuck boulders from a block away. casters (inv especially) should be able to nuke people from much further than a couple feet away, etc etc etc. i just don't really think there is any place for true "ranged" combat in a game like this. the dirt;flee;shoot;camo crap is standard fare from just about every ranger i've seen since i started playing again recently, and it's just...bleh.
Just go into kyosanken ffs...
my only remotely related .02 is that dirt;flee;shootshootshootshootshootshoot is about the most dumb thing in this game. it happens all the freaking time. wonder why??? i dont really think that a system/gameworld built and based on "engagement" has any place for that. why cant bards and thieves throw one room away or something? stone giants should be able to chuck boulders from a block away. casters (inv especially) should be able to nuke people from much further than a couple feet away' date=' etc etc etc. i just don't really think there is any place for true "ranged" combat in a game like this. the dirt;flee;shoot;camo crap is standard fare from just about every ranger i've seen since i started playing again recently, and it's just...bleh.[/quote']
If anyone is using that as a viable method to kill anyone, the guy that got killed brought it on. Lag locking only works if they're in the same room, and if they've got throw... which takes care of a lot of the archery problem.
dirt;flee;shoot!!!!!!! is just as effective as dirt;disarm;bash!!!!!! or c firestorm;c flame!!!!!! or anything that takes no time to worry about.
If you get blinded and are getting picked off, RUN. Run fast and far, dirt kicking takes 1 round to wear off, if you can't get moving around for one round there's a problem (someone had to cast an ensaring affect- of which I'm not sure are even around past lag attacks in combat).
If they do shoot you and flee, their pets flee too. So you're not taking damage from the pets. Go buy a missle protection scroll, go get inside some place around the corner, quaff a recall that's in your inventory and not your bag (if you can't, not sure), run, skyrocket yourself, smoke a bowl (I hate that the sanc one is keyworded to bowl. I'll get over it.), run, if you can go to the direction he fled and start dropping area attacks, blind him, run, oh, run?
Throw not going rooms, I understand that better. An bow can launch an arrow further than you can throw a football, I'm pretty sure. Unless I'm some sort of weakling... and judging by my arm measurements it's possible... and for the sake of balance I understand throwing.
If they're camoed they don't' have their pets (probably), so go to Miruvhor, buy a fireball potion and whoops his ***. They're cheap, too. I think Falen Dara has something similar? Not 100% on that. Buy the aid of a thief, another ranger, or a druid. If the druid wont' help, lie to them and say, "Hey, this ranger dude is totally like macking on your Gaia chick and wants to live in the city... naw, man, fo real. You should do something and I can help." Aulian would be pissed...
There is always an option for every class to mitigate anything another class can throw at them. Yes, there is a rock paper scissors thing going on, but sometimes if you stack enough paper together that scissor can't cut it... and not getting cut might be enough to win... cause you're not bleeding and don't lose HP cause of attacks and then... that rock comes by and slaps you with an enlarge on him so he bashes right through all your layers! I don't want to even consider were spoke comes in on this thing...
a-g
What I might like to see is flight being a factor in certain skills. Flying would make it harder to be blinded, but a lot harder to kick dirt. If someone is three feet off the ground you can't really blind them as easy, and that's just the "realism" angle to play. The problem with ranger archery that I've heard a lot of is that people say "they blind you and shoot", well, quaff a flight potion or recite a scroll and fly and they'll have a harder time. Make size a factor in how easy it is to dirt (if it isn't already)?
Also, Ninjas take all of an hour to fully train (laugh) so why not give them anatomy? They have to study a race, and if monks have to do it to realize how to damage someone... what about making ninjas have to study the anatomy of their target? Not all races can be made the same way for a one hit kill. I still don't see assassinate as a problem... four hours is a LONG damn time (unless you were talking in game hours, Tot, then I'd have a problem with it.) when you consider it takes a warrior or invoker 10 rounds to off someone in about 20 minutes worth of fleeing and whatso? Anats could figure in Ninja's other skills (maybe their shadowy arts?) and Ikuzuchi could be scaled to anats, making the spirit thing hone in on the race's biological fears... (a man's is a child, a woman's is a man running away of said child, badoomtish.) "Your lineage's fears DEMOLISH you!" and make it mental damage... to help ninja's battle giant sized and (usually) dumb foes. Grapple already pwns, though.
Tracking is easy for anyone. c 'locate' locate corpses to find people killing things. locate springs to see if an invoker or healer is somewhere, locate magic meals/apples/etc. to locate people creating food.
if someone is farming things, which does happen at 50... getting vials and all. reputation them. You can check the reputation of anyone in the game. "Repu " "oh, I see fearies is down, maybe they're getting herbs at the Kaddars? And that other guy is down in demons... I'll check the pentagram after that." Tracking is a cinch for anyone.
Hell, I'd love to see environment be a bigger factor in all skills. Dirt kick fails a little more in the forests and fields than in the city (dust in cities, grass in fields and forest) and just goes nuts better in sandy areas. Fire damage amplified in lava zones, or maybe less because people are already hot so ice damage would rock people? Dodge being less effective in forests (so many trees, you'd run into them), ranged weapons being more difficult, as well as thrown, in the same areas. Open fields and deserts? More skill! Night swings in and people can't really shoot as well, but light attacks might do a little mroe damage or have a little chance of a short blind? I'm just riffing here, no thought of balance in this... but-
Players aren't' coming in as quick, and when they do they don't stick around as long. We can cry why we feel this is happening, but it is because it is. Not my fault, not yours, not the staffs, maybe Pali's, but the game has the hard core people who've been here for years... we're all vets now. Why not amp up the game play? Those that would have stuck around before woudl still stick around, and we'd all get something new to consider and figure out.
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a-g
Damnit A-G, stop telling people about my plans to ruin the mud.
On the subject of long distance arrow use.
Classes without Scrolls are:
Zerks, Warriors, Rangers, Blademasters.
Blademasters have a VS arrow Stance.
Rangers can play the same arrow game.
Warrior, wield a magic polearm Or dual maces, and Enlarge BAsh.
**Zerks **i think should have a aid VS arrows.
Like a inbuilt way to roar and ignore arrows. Yes, they can Enlarge bodyslam, but they lack the warriors defences vs a Meele oriented class.
All other classes at least have the option for the scroll. Even Crusaders.
Help CRUSADER REQUIREMENTS
More two things.
Dirt is affected by Size.
Dirt is affected by Terrain.
High AC can aid block arrows.
PS: You can save the arrows spell if you have the related saves.
you guys are all completely mistaking me. i didnt write " wahh wahhh some archer killed me shooting and i had no clue how to stop him."
my point is that its not hard to avoid it, its super lame, and doesn't fit in with a lot of other mechanics in this game imho.
Tot is right. He found the current problems that I also have with the game in only the short time he's been here. Some suggestions would be to change study to a skill that would strengthen a ninjas basic abilities or new ones depending on how strong the study is. The problem with arrows isn't too bad as there are ways around it, but the strategy does promote an avoidance of actual combat for a strong melee class that definitely doesn't need it. It is difficult fighting a ranger shooting from afar running a few rooms away and shooting again. Anyone here can attest to how dfficult it is to enlarge and bash lock a giant ranger that doesn't want to be in combat. And geez, that track skill. That's more powerful than probably each cabal tracking skill that I know of.
You mean other than the fact that it tracks the footprints of anyone of that race and not necessarily the one person you are hunting? Or that they can lead you really far away and recall, throwing you off the path? Or that they can double back by entering and leaving an area?