Roll system

We aren't designing FL from the ground up. We're talking about a game with a rich history that has had a lot of work put into it, and people are quibbling over the rolling system as though it actually has any bearing on player attraction and retention. We're nearing "silly" here, now. There are much larger fish to fry.

Ding ding ding..we have a winner! I'm with you.

it actually does. i honestly think that if it were easier/faster to make new characters, we would keep more players. why? cause there would be more lower levels around to * help * lower level characters rank.

it actually does. i honestly think that if it were easier/faster to make new characters' date=' we would keep more players. why? cause there would be more lower levels around to [i'] help lower level characters rank.

Then we disagree. Almost every text-based RPG game out there has some sort of rolling system in place for initial character creation, and the one in place here is fairly forgiving compared to many that I've seen. What else do you suggest? There's really no point in revamping what exists now - the only reasonable change would be to remove rolling altogether.

This is all moot, though - if someone has gone so far as to connect to FL, they aren't going to turn away because of the rolling system that's in place. Things that would go much further to attract new players would be essays on TMS and similar sites, activity in forum/irc communities outside of this one, relevant banner advertisement, word of mouth to your RL nerd friends, dedicated daily voting on rank sites, etc. Players are rarely just dropped of by the stork, and in-game stuff like an easy (or non-existing) roll system come into play after someone has already decided to give FL a shot, and is really secondary to the gameplay experience itself when it comes to player retention. If character creation for FL needs to be easier still, then I don't even want to think about the type of players we're hoping to retain by mulling that type of change. It's pretty damned easy as it is - just my .02

"We need to fix bugs"- "Nah, new roller."

"We need to fix typos."- "Nah, new roller."

"We need to replace unused stock areas."- "Nah, new roller."

"We need to further promote balance between classes."- "Nah, new roller."

"We need to increase playerbase by voting."- "Nah, new roller."

"We need more IMM and player run quests and RP."- "Nah, new roller."

"We need to give IUTBS an award."- "Give him a new roller."

It's a moot point. The roller isn't what got us hooked. It wasn't what makes us come back repeatedly. It simply is a miniscule speck of nothing. It's fine the way it is. Better than some I've seen. Better than the old one we had.

Let's keep our focus on the bigger things, can we?

I liked the old roller system better. It gave you a set of stats and you had to either accept it or get a new set.

This new one caters to powergamers a lot.

EDIT: I like the idea of having unique stats for each character. Lets go back to old roller and remove the ability to train stats!

You could powergame the old roller as well, Mudder. At least the new one allows some versatility.

And IUTBS, you get the "Old Fogey Who Should Retire" Award.

[edit] All I am seeing is people complaining about something without offering alternative. Someone offered to replace it with a system like in other muds where your roll changes all your stats but that is much worse than ours since in such a sytem you have like 5-6 variables instead of 1.

FL used to have a rolling system like this one, and it was changed to simplify things and allow people to have more choices regarding customization of their character.

Again, are there any objections to a built-in autoroller? It would keep total newbs on an even setting with people who have played muds before (though frankly, I still think this an incredibly minor issue especially when it comes to retaining newbs), while not giving any real difference to people with mud experience.

I agree that this is such a small, trivial matter. Getting an uber roll is not required by any means to do well at all. As a newbie, getting a 53, or getting a 45, there is not going to be much difference in how you perform anyway.

You know, people keep arguing about the roll system, especially that it makes it hard for new players to get a good roll because they might give up after only a few rolls.

I notice that nobody has brought up the fact that the current roller SHOWS you the max stats you can get and provides you with a notification that you have 8 in all stats to begin with.

It is not hard to do ∑Max Stat - ∑Base Stat = Needed points

You can then determine if that roll of 44 on your elf cleric (an earlier example in this thread) would look good or not. I mean, look at the average human

∑Max = 101, ∑base = 40. 101-40 = 61...does 45 sound good for that?

Now, as a thought for an alternative to a rolling system (and I don't think this idea would work without some serious restructuring, so don't think this is a serious proposal, I like the current system):

Set the cap for any attribute at 25 and give each race a number of points based upon current stat maxes, exp penalty and need for balance based upon testing. Now allow players to customize their stats how they want.

So yes, you could have your human dkn that has as 25 in STR...but you're going to be balanced elsewhere. Points would definitely have to be balanced, because I realize you could adjust a human to have 25 str, normal con and dex, and still have 17 int, 19 wis and therefore not be too gimped. However, take a fire giant and boost its INT to 17 and WIS to 18, there's 5 points you have to pull from somewhere, which will make you loose other bonuses you have.

EDIT: As an addition, + Stat gear would have to be reconsidered as well, because you could easily have people running around with multiple 25's thanks to gear.

Eliminating max rolls would make +stat gear actually useful, other than a +str buffer for when you fight -str communers\casters and want to hold on to your weapon.

It could enrich gameplay, and make half of the game's ignored gear viable.

You know, people keep arguing about the roll system, especially that it makes it hard for new players to get a good roll because they might give up after only a few rolls.

I notice that nobody has brought up the fact that the current roller SHOWS you the max stats you can get and provides you with a notification that you have 8 in all stats to begin with.

It is not hard to do ∑Max Stat - ∑Base Stat = Needed points

You can then determine if that roll of 44 on your elf cleric (an earlier example in this thread) would look good or not. I mean, look at the average human

∑Max = 101, ∑base = 40. 101-40 = 61...does 45 sound good for that?

it wasnt mentioned cause it wasnt important.

you cant roll a 61. i knew coming in not to expect to be able to max stats at the start. but whats a good roll? i didnt know that. i didnt know how high you could roll. i knew somewhat what a good roll was. but only cause i was talking to someone that plays at the time of rolling.

even so, i've been sitting here (just now) for over 30 minutes trying to get even a 50.. and you are opposed to even tightening the roll range? its a huge waste of time.

You could powergame the old roller as well, Mudder. At least the new one allows some versatility.

And IUTBS, you get the "Old Fogey Who Should Retire" Award.

Can't Anume lock you up somewhere again?

even so' date=' i've been sitting here (just now) for over 30 minutes trying to get even a 50.. and you are opposed to even tightening the roll range? its a huge waste of time.[/quote']

Depends a lot on what you are rolling... for a lot of combos, 50 is pretty close to max roll (faeries, humans, giants).

There IS a thread stickied that lists the max rolls people have found for different races. As long as that information is considered unprotected, perhaps we could make it so that the rolling system tells you the max rolls listed in that thread.

Or.. we could tighten the range or adopt a different system. anything to shorten the time required for a good roll.

anything to shorten the time required for a good roll.

See, that's where we differ. I don't want to shorten the time required for people to get a great roll. I'm all for informing them so they can make a choice about what roll they'll accept, but I agree with the idea of making someone spend time for a great roll on a char.

Or.. we could tighten the range or adopt a different system. anything to shorten the time required for a good roll.

If you have a roller what is the problem with time then?

I really fail to understand... people want good things to happen with a single clap these days...

I get a decent roll and move on. One or two extra trains isn't worth my time.

Let the people who aren't like me get a little something special. Hehe.

If you have a roller what is the problem with time then?

I really fail to understand... people want good things to happen with a single clap these days...

lol, i dont really have a problem with the roller, its its kind of pointless though...

The roller is about as important to me as description... i care about it untill its done then i dont think about it again. I treat them like speedbumps. Desc checks can be more like brick walls at times though.

Roll system is fine. I don't use a trigger. I treat it like an introductory mini game.

Elf

y

n

Blademaster

y

roll

roll

roll

where ro

23 is in the Feral Adventurer roller

42 is in the Gnome warrior roller

55 is in the Elf Paladin roller

"DAMN IT! I knew I shoulda gone paladin!"

a-g

Its a horrible cliche - but my old boss used to say this about change all the f**king time.

"If you only do what you've always done, you'll only ever get what you've always had."

Is the roller system a problem to those of us who know the game?

No, its just fine.

Is the Roller system a barrier entry to a new player, who has a multitude of games to pick from, and probably needs to get hooked in the first 15 mins if they are going to stay?

Yes, Probably.

My suggestion? Give two options at creation...You can choose to a 'random roll' Or you can take a 'standard character'

Random roll stays as it is, standard character gives you a roll 3 points off max for that race/class combo.