what would be new/rebalanced? im pretty sure the imms have accounted for players with high stats. in fact im fairly certain.
so again, what would change, besides new players and experienced players being on even playing field in the stats department?
Well...do you want the IMMs working on a new stat allocation system or skills/spells/songs/items/areas in the game?
Why is this thread so popular? Get an auto-roller and move on.
If we incorperate an autoroller into the process.. whats the point of the process?
To make the game a little more newbie friendly while maintaining the concept of time investment in the character.
stats arent going to change the fact that new people will lose. a lot. thats just common sense. all it would do is lessen the learning curve.
If the stats don't matter, what is your complaint with the roller system?
Why is everyone defending this precious rolling system? It actually does blow.
I understand the point of it, that not all characters will start on the exact same foot, and that those who are willing to put it a bit more time at creation will reap a reward.
BUT, do the pros outweigh the cons?
Should FL be willing to lose players at creation because not everyone wants to wait a couple of hours to just get in to the game for the first time? Or when they finally do they have to remake because they find out they are totally gimped.
In my opinion why not just tighten the range of the roller. Keep the same max rolls so the die hards can set triggers and spend hours to get that extra train, and at the same time people who care less about that 10 hp (30 moves if you are Mudder) can at least get in the game quickly and not be more than 5 points off a max roll.
I think it this is a valid point, and I agree with MCD that all of you vets who jump in with the harden up princess talk every time a new player has an idea to make things a lil' easier are partly to blame for the lack of new players.
edit: Also, I don't think a change of this sort would burden the Imms tremendously. In fact I'd wager any of their coders could just alter the code slightly so you dont see anymore rolls in the 20's and 30's.
Even without a roller, you will get a number within 4-5 trains (50 hp) of max within just a couple of minutes at the most. You hugely exaggerate how difficult it is to get an all right roll. With a roller, you can get within 1-3 points of max roll within minutes. To get that max roll, however, often requires hours of time rolling with a roller. That is the point. If you want the best, you have to work for it.
Pali is only cruel to be kind...
Never had a problem with the roller, even when I was completely new. I have always gotten what I wanted fairly soon. Definately not too long for me to question the rolling system. It isn't that big of an issue.
its not an issue imo, and plenty of other games have similar systems that n00bs would already be familiar with anyway.
more generally, i'm curious exactly how big you want this game to be? lots of subtle complaining/grumbling around these parts about wanting a bigger pbase, lalala, but making changes to ensure that total knobs stick around. what kind of people do you want playing here?
99.9% of people can't stomach playing a txt based game, let alone one with as many ruthless asshats as this one. i'd prefer a small handful of new players that are tough, hardened badasses to a huge influx of assknobbery and ooc help questions.
we complain that imms are too busy to approve descs, but we want to make it easier for idiots to start populating this thing? im sure malch and anume et al. would just love 50 nublets running around mass-pking at level 12 and praying "y0 d00dz h0w d0 i jump l0L."
aaaaaand i am done being a 75 year old man for now, thank you and good day.
I have never rolled for more than 15 - 20 minutes. Maybe I am just lucky. I don't see what the complaint is here. I have seen other MUDs that I HATE their rolling system. This one is not bad at all.
For anyone who knows what to do/expect it is not a bad system. But what about for someone who is brand new to FL and maybe to mudding too. And they hit roll a few times then take that 44 on their elf cleric...
That is just a really crappy roll and it is not neccesary IMO for someone new to have to learn a harsh lesson of this sort. As MCD said, they are gonna get reamed anyay, at least let's have them be able to max con and int...
Re: Aeva
I agree with the spirit of your post, the game will benefit from "harder" hew players and we probably don't want a bunch of 12 year old imbeciles running around...But you make it sound as if our rolling system is gonna keep out the riffraff, or somehow harden players before they even get in to the game. Anyway, why take a chance of this kind? I do not think this MUD is in a position where it can disregard getting and keeping new players over such a trivial issue. Yah we all know how to get a good roll, so can we at LEAST put something in the creation process that says "Hey Noob, don't take anything under 50 if you want a snowballs chance in hell."
Look, when I first started, I was able to get PKs with a roll of 35. It is part of learning the game. Every game has alearning curve. And alot of other muds have ****TY rolling systems.
So because other muds have crappy rolling systems that means FL should too? I don't get why it is so undesireable to tighten the gap between rolls or at least to give new players a heads up in creation as to what a decent roll is...
I personally think there is too much of people complaining about game mechanics that have existed for years. I realize it is somewhat of a hassle, but that time you spend rolling, you can be thinking up RP, writing a desc, coming up with backstory, cabal ideas, weapon ideas etc etc etc.
Re: Aeva
I agree with the spirit of your post, the game will benefit from "harder" hew players and we probably don't want a bunch of 12 year old imbeciles running around...But you make it sound as if our rolling system is gonna keep out the riffraff, or somehow harden players before they even get in to the game. Anyway, why take a chance of this kind? I do not think this MUD is in a position where it can disregard getting and keeping new players over such a trivial issue.
I don't mean to suggest that the system in place is some sort of be-all end-all filter for player quality, only that making things easier than they already are isn't exactly my idea of a solution. Further, I don't really think that a less troublesome rolling system would really accomplish anything in the way of new player retention or attraction - it's not a very difficult thing to figure out, and I have to imagine that a vast majority of any player new to this game has previous MUD-style experience as well as experience with a rolling system of some sort. If they do not, I would think that the last thing anybody wants to do is get them overly concerned with rolling when they should be more worried about learning the game itself.
Anybody who thinks there are droves (or even handfuls, really) of people with zero MUD experience flocking to these types of games is kidding themselves. It's a niche audience, and it's my opinion that any changes aimed at attracting and retaining new players should focus on areas that are more important to an experienced player rather than things that are back-pats for green players. People that already play MUD style games generally know people that play MUD style games, and impressing an experienced player usually ends in she or he telling their MUD pals about what they've seen. There are an awful lot of us that originally ended up here playing FL because of that very phenomena.
New races? No. New Classes? No. New select system? No. By no means do I think there is any sort of "magic bullet," but I think that marketing the similarities between FL and other like-coded games alongside the improvements and community here would be much more effective than daily stresses over silly stuff like rolling forumside.
Aaaaaaand that got ranty. Sorry, just awfully tired of poking in here to read the "complaint of the day" since I've been back. I think I will go start working on an essay for TMS now 
Yah we all know how to get a good roll' date=' so can we at LEAST put something in the creation process that says "Hey Noob, don't take anything under 50 if you want a snowballs chance in hell."[/quote']
Something similar to this couldn't hurt.
One thing I would say is that keeping things the same just 'because thats the way they are' has never seemed good enough for me in any environment.
Imagine FL was being designed from the ground up, and you were looking to attract new players in a very tough market. Would we be designing it with a rolling system like this one? Or would we tailor the game to getting new people involved, engaged and interested as soon as possible?
Yes, if I were to make FL from scrap I would keep the same system. Perhaps could add a note saying which is the max roll possible, but I would keep it.
[edit] All I am seeing is people complaining about something without offering alternative. Someone offered to replace it with a system like in other muds where your roll changes all your stats but that is much worse than ours since in such a sytem you have like 5-6 variables instead of 1.
I don't see why people would say "keep the roll system, it gives you time to write everything about your character."
you should do that BEFORE you roll. with the exception of a desc. That should be decided on after. yes, waiting at 15 was a little annoying, but it helped me so much. the focus shifted from levelling to finding out more of what I could do. It gave me time to do things I wouldn't have done, and time to test ideas.
to emp: what complete newbie is already thinking of cabals/weapon choices when rolling a first character?
Imagine FL was being designed from the ground up' date=' and you were looking to attract new players in a very tough market. Would we be designing it with a rolling system like this one? Or would we tailor the game to getting new people involved, engaged and interested as soon as possible?[/quote']
We aren't designing FL from the ground up. We're talking about a game with a rich history that has had a lot of work put into it, and people are quibbling over the rolling system as though it actually has any bearing on player attraction and retention. We're nearing "silly" here, now. There are much larger fish to fry.
Perhaps could add a note saying which is the max roll possible, but I would keep it.
[edit] All I am seeing is people complaining about something without offering alternative. Someone offered to replace it with a system like in other muds where your roll changes all your stats but that is much worse than ours since in such a sytem you have like 5-6 variables instead of 1.
Ding ding ding..we have a winner! I'm with you.
I don't mean to suggest that the system in place is some sort of be-all end-all filter for player quality, only that making things easier than they already are isn't exactly my idea of a solution. Further, I don't really think that a less troublesome rolling system would really accomplish anything in the way of new player retention or attraction - it's not a very difficult thing to figure out, and I have to imagine that a vast majority of any player new to this game has previous MUD-style experience as well as experience with a rolling system of some sort. If they do not, I would think that the last thing anybody wants to do is get them overly concerned with rolling when they should be more worried about learning the game itself.
Anybody who thinks there are droves (or even handfuls, really) of people with zero MUD experience flocking to these types of games is kidding themselves. It's a niche audience, and it's my opinion that any changes aimed at attracting and retaining new players should focus on areas that are more important to an experienced player rather than things that are back-pats for green players. People that already play MUD style games generally know people that play MUD style games, and impressing an experienced player usually ends in she or he telling their MUD pals about what they've seen. There are an awful lot of us that originally ended up here playing FL because of that very phenomena.
New races? No. New Classes? No. New select system? No. By no means do I think there is any sort of "magic bullet," but I think that marketing the similarities between FL and other like-coded games alongside the improvements and community here would be much more effective than daily stresses over silly stuff like rolling forumside.
Aaaaaaand that got ranty. Sorry, just awfully tired of poking in here to read the "complaint of the day" since I've been back. I think I will go start working on an essay for TMS now
Something similar to this couldn't hurt.
I do have MUD experience. years ago, but still, its MUD experience. The roll system for the MUD I played was completely different. With it, you rolled your stats, and what you got was a finished product. no customization. It was great in a way, beause you tended to get something you wanted fast, and every player had the same stat total (dependent on race). What would be better, would be a combination of this system and that one, your base roll could be random (not straight 8's) and you can get a handful of points to customize with.
how many advertisements do you see that advertise something to be similar?
Do you see a big mac advertised as being similar to a whopper? it just doesnt make sense.
