perhaps this will help balance the issue with melee's currently without making major changes to the classes themselves...
Buff warmaster abilities?
I don't like this idea for the simple fact that classes are supposed to be balanced, as well as class/cabal combos. This would do nothing to help the problems facing uncaballed melees or those in other cabals.
From what I found with Skronk. Barbarian is very balanced against non-caballed char, BUT, those savant abilities are rough...as are nexus'.
I don't necesarrily think they need buffed, or really anything at all, but I'm always interested in seeing new things, no matter what they might be.
If warmaster is balanced then how come i never see any on? And Savant and Nexus abilities are hardly even close to balanced for un-caballed guys.
Just because you don't see them on doesn't mean they're not balanced.
Generally speaking, and depending on who you talk to, FL has a small active pbase than what it used to. So with that, the amount of players in the 50 range is small. And the way things go, as in life, popular things are popular for awhile. So right now, Savant and the others are more popular than warmaster. Just the way it is. Nothing wrong with it, just life.
Also, I'm not saying things are or are not balanced. Just the reasoning that you don't seem the on meaning one or the other is flawed.
Make a WM, take him to the top of the guild, and wreck people. Prove they're either balanced, underpowered, or overpowered. That's about the only way for sure.
a-g
I've played 5 warmaster's evrerything from minotaur berserkers to ogre warriors, to human monks, compared to my Nexus and Savants they have always been lacking... but perhaps its just me.
Maybe you misread my post. I said WM was balanced against UN-caballed chars, and I said SAVANT and NEXUS' abilities were MORE POWERFUL.
I agree that this cyclical pattern applies to the cabals in FL (its pretty much as commonly accepted as it can get.)
However, you can't help noticing that the cabal on top has not been Warmaster for a very long time. The last time that Warmaster was genuinely kicking Savant all over was back when we had Senrail, Orlick, Bazin, Loriss, and one or two others all in the cabal at once. And that is more a fluke concentration of experience than anything else...
Personally, I don't think the problem is that the Warmaster skills are too weak; just that the Savant skills are more useful in killing Warmasters than the Warmaster skills are in killing Savants...if that makes any sense. On the other hand, its a widely held opinion also that in general , Savant (Temporum specifically) has the strongest skills. Theoretically, since C/Cs > Melees, WM should have stronger skills. I've actually put a lot of thought into why this is and this probably doesn't make sense to anyone but me, but I really don't have the energy to type it all up now.
my post was more directed to a-guitarist than anyone else, sorry it i was unclear.
everyone is always crying, warrior this, berserker that, its not easy being the only "visible" person in a very invisible world. Fighter classes are typically the weaker class in games that require alot of tanking and not alot of direct pk. However this game doesn't require tanks, and warriors are far from the masters of armed combat... i'd put a blademaster against a warmaster or berzerker any day...
If anyone thinks warriors and berserkers are "weak" or "underpowered" They're dead wrong. I won't go into any details, but I've played warriors that have nearly one rounded the best chars of the time. Berserkers are a different story, but I've been pwned by zerkers a few times in my day, mainly the ones with horns wink
Id put a halfling blademaster against anything that cant dispel anyday.
If you want to discuss berserkers - there is a thread where a few of us have put up some ideas over in Ideas and Suggestions... Check it out.
As for upping WM abilities - doing it to improve melee's is the wrong reason. If it is to be improved then it should be done because the abilites lack in relation to other cabals. This isn't really a discussion that can be had here....
L-A
As for upping WM abilities - doing it to improve melee's is the wrong reason. If it is to be improved then it should be done because the abilites lack in relation to other cabals. This isn't really a discussion that can be had here....
L-A
This was my meaning.
Id put a halfling blademaster against anything that cant dispel anyday.
A halfling blademaster equipped right will be pretty tough to dispel anyways.
Hah - trust me that if any of the skilled players that are currently in Nexus/Savant wanted to destroy equally with a WM, they would be able to. What you see in Savant right now are power combos and that's not necessarily the case in WM.
The problem with melees in general is the high-degree of equipment changing you need in order to survive - especially in WM when you have to fight communers and casters that can wreak havoc on petty saves. The savant skill set is very buff, perhaps the most buff because it's the only cabal that melees are not allowed in and therefore the entire skill set is dedicated to spell casters - who even uncaballed, generally speaking, own the 50 range.
Gladiator skills are very buff, it's just that in order to really take advantage of the Gladiator skill set, you need to redefine the common tactics of weapon selection and know when to use which weapons...A gladiator that decked themself out in high svs gear and has done his homework in regards to their cabal skills will be able to destroy every Savant in a "no mistakes" contest. However, then they're at the mercy of other melees with much higher hit/dam. That may even be saying too much - sorry if it is. I'm not really familiar with the Barbarian set so I can't comment.
The point is that in order to really be effective vs. Savants, a WM (Gladiator at least) needs very high saves but that puts them at a disadvantage with other melees who can lag and outdamage - that is the general problem with melees altogether. Mages need one suit with maybe one or two inventory items for higher saves/hp depending on the situation.
I've played 5 warmaster's evrerything from minotaur berserkers to ogre warriors' date=' to human monks, compared to my Nexus and Savants they have always been lacking... but perhaps its just me.[/quote']
Sorry to bite at your sarcasm, but I never meant to insinuate that you didn't know what you were talking about. I just don't know who you are, or what you've ever played, or anything about you other than you've posted 25 times in the last 3 hours, doing pretty much only complaining and jabbering without posting anything of true constructive merit. (Although you did add some constructive ideas in the buff the warriors/zerks thread, along with a few other tidbits here or there)
I didn't mean to have my post be seen as a stab at you. I was just saying if you're going to say "this is jacked" then do so, with why you think it is. A blanket statement of "These are not working right." without why it isn't working right means no one is going to take you seriously.
"This are not working right." .
If you want to say it in english too we wont be mad.
The savant skill set is strong, yes. But so is the wm set. I have to agree with the EQ set comment though. Melees rely IMHO 100x more on eq then your average mage.
Oh sure they may want this item becuase it raises this or buffs up this or strengthens that, but for a warrior its I need that item or im going to die and when I loose it, im screwed till I get it again.
How about offering a set of cabal equipment that is relatively cheap (Im talking costing you about 300-500 cps for a full suit) with a decent amount of saves and some hit dam? Doesnt have to be uber, just something to help when they cant get their hands on that adeptus, or that soul reavers, or those moonstones... Ya know?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and warriors are no where close to weak.. Tell me how many people had an easy time killing Kyatha?
The issue with warriors is that anything outside of ogre warrior is significantly weaker.
Warmaster's have a powerful skill set..the TEST though is that as "I" and "M" they cant use sanc and dont have any alternative...so they get COOKED in cabal warfare.
Offering cabal equipment doesnt solve spit though....as the EQ dependency you outline effects all melee not just WM's.
I have tried one or two melee's, though I mostly play casters. I can say that melees have it much easier on eq gathering in the first place. Though from experience with Oorthulk I did find that the hours spent gathering equipment just to lose it all in one mistake is harsh. The self-reliance was very nice.
see the thing here is not the WM skill set but instead one of the Savant's skills.....that particular one will either be neutralized or break you depending on whether you pick Gladiator or Barbarian. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case every time, but it has been for me and a few others almost 90% of the time. So while we question the melee class I personally don't think they're underpowered or whatever even w/out a decent set of eq because uncaballed ex-Savants basically get destroyed without their skills given the exception of Battlemages.