Pre-50 game idea

I'm just spitballin'.

Make clans something.

1. Drop the 30k gold entrance method. Replace with an induction method. While the absolute leader of the clan is the leader of the related cabal, put someone else in charge of the actual clan, a cabal elder or vet perhaps. Make characters apply for induction. Require three trusted members or better to vouch them in. After that, automated quests can get them to trusted. Clan elders would probably need the authority to induct new members. This will thin the herds a little bit. And, more importantly, since you cannot easily change clans, there will be an interview and newer players will get in the proper clan. And something freely given has no value. This makes players EARN their positions.
2. Give them skills. Copy the first two cabal skills or make up two crappy, but semi-useful skills/spells and give them to the clan, one for trusted and one for veteran. Clan elders and leaders don't need anything since they should be cabal members. This will give a small but tangible reward to lower ranked characters. It may even aid newbies into getting to 50.

Give the clans a purpose.

Perhaps the new clans should have the old cabal standard do-dad sytem thing. Cabal members could/would ignore the clan battle because generals are worried about wars not skirmishes. But they would be around to push the lower clan members to do something.

Replace the OLD clans.

The old clans crossed cabals. It was why they were created. They served specific purposes. This last RP plot would have be an event that could have caused the formation of a clan. The old Academy clan is another example of why cross-cabal associations need to be possible.

Well, there it is. I had more but the train of thought derailed. Maybe this will get some interesting ideas floating around.

I like the basics of the ideas you have there, a lot.

I like the idea of having somebody look over the clan, but the problem there lies within inactive Cabals, where an Immortal will have to constantly induct people into the clan themselves until one of them becomes Caballed. Having to have three T's vouch for someone to let an Elder induct them into a clan is a bit much, IMO, too.

I don't think they should get skills either, but rather base their allowance for being able to apply to the Cabal on their clan rank. If they were to get skills, I think they should be -really- basic (like what you mentioned), even if it's not something that contributes to PK, but to RP (like creating a lightsource that is a banner of their respective clan, as like a standard bearer - it'd look good on say, a Knight wannabe, wearing their Banner of Hope as a symbol of their dedication, when they notices someone come in wearing their Banner of Despair and so begins the fighting in honour of their clan/cabal).

I love the idea of some sort of clan warfare, but I have no idea at all about how the old Cabal Warfare system was, so I don't know if that would be a good idea or not. But I think some sort of warfare system, a very, very basic one that isn't too involving - remember, to join a clan's respective Cabal is their ultimate goal, and that's where all the action is.

I like the idea of making clans a bit more involving, especially in the lower ranks too where clannies can't attack their cabal's enemy caballers. But I think it should be a pretty simple system, and one that doesn't neccessarily filter/thin out the number of clannies. After all, it'd be more fun having a 10-man strong Despair clan and a 10-man strong Hope clan, fighting it out with each other alongside their Knights and Nexians, with the clannies that prove to be strong in PK/RP or RP/effort put forward for recommendation to the Cabal Imm.

I'm waffling on again, as I tend to do, so I'll stop now.

Dey

Love the ideas. Clans are bland. They have no real purpose and could use all the changes you suggest.

I'm just spitballin'.

Make clans something.

1. Drop the 30k gold entrance method. Replace with an induction method. While the absolute leader of the clan is the leader of the related cabal, put someone else in charge of the actual clan, a cabal elder or vet perhaps. Make characters apply for induction. Require three trusted members or better to vouch them in. After that, automated quests can get them to trusted. Clan elders would probably need the authority to induct new members. This will thin the herds a little bit. And, more importantly, since you cannot easily change clans, there will be an interview and newer players will get in the proper clan. And something freely given has no value. This makes players EARN their positions.
2. Give them skills. Copy the first two cabal skills or make up two crappy, but semi-useful skills/spells and give them to the clan, one for trusted and one for veteran. Clan elders and leaders don't need anything since they should be cabal members. This will give a small but tangible reward to lower ranked characters. It may even aid newbies into getting to 50.

Give the clans a purpose.

Perhaps the new clans should have the old cabal standard do-dad sytem thing. Cabal members could/would ignore the clan battle because generals are worried about wars not skirmishes. But they would be around to push the lower clan members to do something.

Replace the OLD clans.

The old clans crossed cabals. It was why they were created. They served specific purposes. This last RP plot would have be an event that could have caused the formation of a clan. The old Academy clan is another example of why cross-cabal associations need to be possible.

Well, there it is. I had more but the train of thought derailed. Maybe this will get some interesting ideas floating around.

I like the idea of sponsorship/vouching, its like getting into knights back in the day!

And I really like the idea of involving the clan more! Secondly, I think that Leaders should be given much more power.

its not exactly like its a position that is just handed over.

Oh and elders can induct I did quite a bit with Dulanain and a little with Ghadryn when I was Elder/Leader of clan.

This idea is good. Right now there is a sharp split/differentiation between clans and cabals where they are more like two different groups than one group aiming for a common cause. The relationship between clans and cabals I feel should be more like between elders and members of a cabal. Lets make clans relevant again!

Obviously they should not be directly involved in standard warfare. Though there must be other things that they could do. Maybe we could make another kind of standard which clan members could go for?

Obviously they should not be directly involved in standard warfare. Though there must be other things that they could do. Maybe we could make another kind of standard which clan members could go for?

The only problem I see with that is ranking! If someone had to keep leaving to get a stupid clan standard there would never be ranking, ever

Its hard enough already. Need another way to involve clans cause Im all for it!

The thing is, clans don't need to be made too similar to Cabals. I think they could use -something- to give them a bit more of a role, to give them some purpose and a bond between the clan and their respective cabal (and I don't have an idea off-hand) but giving them a form of standard warfare is waaaay too much, and won't neccessarily serve to bring clan and cabal together.

The problem with having any sort of induction process where players must vouch for another player's induction is OOC. I will argue that the rank of Trusted is fairly easy to obtain in the sense that with solid RP, and good PK (or good effort put in), you can get Trusted. Positions like Elder and Leader are reserved for the players that are at the top of their game in RP and PK, but their maturity levels too.

Now let's say Deykari has a pinned evil and a Knight at Trusted. I'm playing my evil, and Chayesh comes along on a goodie mort, kills me outright (I must have obviously been AFK, linkdead and naked). Chayesh's goodie wants to be a Knight. Now, in this instance, I'm bitter and immature, and so when the only two other people in Knight (who happen to be T in this example) vouch for Chayesh's goodie, I'll turn around and fashion some sort of barely plausible RP reason for declining it, because man, am I bitter and immature about dying.

How about the idea of anyone being able to get into the clan via the gold fee, but then just making clan promotions a lot more strict and based upon their interactions with the cabal? In short, for a clannie to get into the cabal, the clannies HAVE to interact with their cabal members (clanchat, face-to-face, notes, whatever) with the proper provision made for cabals that have no members/fairly inactive members by the cabal's immortal. Cabal members then have the added responsibility of letting their cabal Elders/Leaders/Immortals know when a clannie has done something that warrants a promotion, or at least to be watched for possible promotion.

Just an idea.

Dey

Dude, I though the point was INVOLVING the NEWBS and teaching them

something. You just made it 100 times harder

But you know what Dey, im a nice guy and we go way back, so I'll

let you try again

I think this clan idea is great. As I mentioned in another thread, FL needs more player interaction. There are so many possibilities of Roleplay with a player-made clan system like this. Imagine Drow family Houses fueding with each other, a religious sect of fanatics worshiping a Demon player, or just a band of Pirates drinking it up on the Galvatar's fancy! The RP possibilities become endless!

Dude, I though the point was INVOLVING the NEWBS and teaching them

something. You just made it 100 times harder

But you know what Dey, im a nice guy and we go way back, so I'll

let you try again

Making it so that clannies have to interact with caballers doesn't make things harder for newbies... :confused:

But yeah, it wasn't meant as a real idea, just a basis for something to build upon with something a little better.

And Wages, I like the sound of what you're talking about, but I think what Myrek is talking about is a way to enhance the already existing feeder clans for their cabals and not specifically new clans.

Again, I don't want to sound all negative, I like the idea, but I just think it needs a bit more discussion to trash out any negatives - specifically room for OOC abuse when it comes to players inducting other players (which I could foresee happening a lot when it comes to the method suggested), and how a clan warfare system would work.

Dey

I think I've got the solution. Just make clan flags always visible to everyone.

If others start seeing clan members as part of the organization, then the clan members will have to RP like part of the organization a lot more rigorously. People will know who their enemies are, conflict will ensue and with that will come the solidarity of the clan.

As far as clan benefits... I can see a 10% boost in gold dropped by npcs.

Also a 10% movement benefit could also work, without overpowering anybody.

I think there are so many good ideas here on a weekly basis, but to me the real problem at the end of the day comes down to pbase. You want more actions, more allegiences, more warfare, more plots etc... You need more players. I think there are two main things that need to be done to attract and keep more players. Firstly there has got to be ways of advertising FL that aren't being done, I wish I could say more on this topic but sadly I know very little about advertising, especially in the mud world. Secondly I think some changes would need to be made to make things a little easier for new players. As some people have pointed out it seems that only the really dedicated type of person ends up sticking it out long enough to learn about the game and start having fun. I dont think the game needs to be changed much, but perhaps there should be more readily available information on the website. If a new player could go to the Forsaken Lands website and be able to browse accurate maps of the three major cities, undetailed maps of non quest/cabal locations, max stats of non quest races, skill and spell sheets for non quest classes, stats and location of basic non rare equipment, then they might feel like they have a better chance. I would also bump up the exp gained from hunting solo and duo, obviously a group of three is best but until the pbase really grows it can be a real pain to rank sometimes. I also think the website would benefit from having a constantly updated calendar of rp events so that newbies can see more easily what has been going on in game (might give them more rp ideas and not make them shy to speak like dey was) Maybe even show on the website how many members are in each cabal and who they are (unless its a flag optional cabal), also the website could reflect what cabals control which areas so newer players can get a feel for who is the stronger cabal at the time. I think there are a lot of ways FL could take information that is going about OOC and by making it more accesable in an IC way it would discourage OOC behavior a little while making the place easier to learn for noobs.

I think there are so many good ideas here on a weekly basis' date=' but to me the real problem at the end of the day comes down to pbase. You want more actions, more allegiences, more warfare, more plots etc... [b']You need more players.

But to get more players we need better features. Get the features installed properly, and they will come. It'll start slow but it'll grow steadily.

There were a couple comments that disagreed with the idea of making it harder to get into clans. I really think that it should be earned somewhat.

As for the "too busy defending the standard to rank" comment... boo hoo. Many of us have lived through it and are better for it. The whole point of this is to make 1-49 about something other than just ranking.

OOC leadership: that's why god made imms.

Re: Mister E

I agree. The FL pbase has run its course for word of mouth advertising. I could play until I die and I very well may never get another person to play. I've tapped all I can. We need to vote. BUT that isn't the point of my post. I am talking about getting people to stay. FL seems very clique-ish or elitist to a newbie who logs on. I'm talking about finding ways to get people involved earlier in their "career". I also agree that the website could provide more basic information but I do not like the idea of detailed maps. (I'd also drop the music.)

Involving newbs and teaching them: cross cabal clan like the old academy could help the 1-30 newb. Clan wars could teach 30+ newbs.

Part of the issue is that there are different levels of "newb". There are different things that need to be taught.

Newb Groups:

Don't know the commands.

Don't know the land.

Don't know how to rank effectively from 1-15.

Don't know how to rank effectively from 16-30.

Don't know how to rank effectively from 31-45.

Don't know how to rank effectively from 45-50.

Don't know how to equip (same divisions as ranking).

Don't know how to rp.

Don't know how to use rp commands.

Don't know the religions.

Don't know how to pk (similar divisions as ranking).

Don't know what training is.

Don't know how to train effectively.

Don't know how to get cabaled.

There is no "the solution". If we as a mud want to improve, then we as a mud must do something about it. If we as a playerbase want the playerbase to improve, then we need to get off our asses. While it is hard to rp as an evil, there are many good and neutral rp angles that would fit with the idea of helping lowbies. If your character serves Knowledge, Compassion, or the Church, you SHOULD be out aiding and teaching. (And I know this includes me.) And we can't dump it all on the imms. While there were changes I never would have made and there are changes that I would make, there are a lot of things that players can do. Perhaps, the "evil" cabals need to be written off as "not newbie friendly". But I haven't seen any teaching going on in any cabal except for Warmasters. At least there, they fight each other.

Look at the Tamara quests. You can offer lowbies some gold or an item to do some menial tasks for you. Sometimes all it takes is a conversation to get someone in the spirit of things. There are more of us than imms. If we can't interact with the rest of the player base, how can we ask the imms to?

A suggestion/idea: pick a cause. Do a "who class" or "who religion" or even "who race". Help them. Talk to them. Just interact with them.

A few ideas concerning clans:

1. Boost "legitimate" Clan benefits - this means having a source of food, weak, low-level EQ, a few utility things (recall, jugs, sacks), as well as a more active role in the world in the Clan Hall. Also, make promotions happen a bit easier (from what I see/remember, its damned hard and requires an IMM; if it is not automated up to Trusted, it should be). Clans should help Newbies, but encourage experianced players to go further with RP. Give Trusted, Elder, and Leader a single ability and have in each Clan Hall a Mob that generates a banner they can carry to show their allegiance if they wish (like a Signet Ring for Militia, a Burning Bush for Hope, etc, give it some small benefit based on the Clan's ideals).

2. Make "illegitimate" Clans viable again. One of the biggest things we need is another set of Clans to act as reactionary elements to big RPs, current Clans, and to represent more dynamic elements of FL, like Religions, Races and non-Militia Hometowns. Make it based on an App by a founding member who has at least 10 signatories. Then they can get it after a moderate waiting period to make sure all the members are active and that the Clan won't just disappear. Clans can come and go, but because they lack a legitimate hall and whatnot, so there is a bit more flavor to them. However, unofficial clans cannot be used for recruiting by Cabals.

3. Make the Clan affiliation appear via the Whois command? This might cramp someone's style in Cartel, which may be the only drawback, but there is no guarantee they are in Syndicate even at 50, so it shouldn't be a big deal. This applies to legit and illegitimate Clans, making forming one's own Clan and encouraging its growth worthwhile.

That is about all I can think of. Those would be awesome improvements. I remember Trader and SacredOak back in 1.0/2.0 and their influences and would love to see the same thing happen now as well. This will push RP back into the daily activity, instead of what I feel is a 1-42 dead zone where RP isn't nearly as common and people just power-rank up to 50 to get into the action. 1-49 should be just as RP-filled as 50 itself. I think these changes, though demanding and thorough, would make pre-50 life very, very important.

re: #3 It doesn't have to be required for all.

I think there are alot of good ideas here, as for advertising, aside from the normal voting, it could be helpful for some vets to write up reviews. Hell, I'll take a stab at a review myself.

On a side note, I STILL don't know all the rp commands, like esay hehe

Interesting thread, containing many thoughtful posts.

As for the "too busy defending the standard to rank" comment... boo hoo. Many of us have lived through it and are better for it. The whole point of this is to make 1-49 about something other than just ranking.

Ah dude, we have all been through it and yeah sure we are better for it. But dont forget how tough it was. we would do well to remember we are trying to keep this newb friendly too? How frustrating wuld it be if you were new and never ever made progress cause all these vets were running around in clan warfare never ranking?! Just some perspective