Trouble with Tribunes

Where people sit all day.

RE : Raar

Great example except for one thing: God. Every CHARACTER IN THIS FANTASY WORLD over the rank of 15 has met a god. Wrong, they've all met THEIR god. I don't know about you, but I've never had a face to face with any immortals in my life. But, and I'm going out on a limb here, I bet I'd do whatever the hell they told me to do. In Aabahran, a good and an evil can't even be grouped. Is your God going to take away your coding ablility, Raar, just for hanging out with the wrong crowd?

And seriously... taking down a drug dealer and popping the local DEMON DARKNIGHT are not the same thing. I grew up in a rough neighborhood and even we wouldn't have allowed a vampire cop.

But back to my funny examlpes that won't make a difference: Here is the real world version of Tot's story:

"So I was headed to my local Baptist church for Wednesday night choir practice cuz I'm such an angel. I had to stop and wash my hands once I got there. I mean, I love helping the homeless but the do stink. And there in the hallway when I came out was Yaweah.

All it took for him to convince me was "Hey there, tough guy. I've got a job for you."

I said "Hell yeah... I mean heck yeah sir."

He continued "I'm going to make you an avatar of mine. You will have some responibilities including killing bad guys."

"You want me to kill drug dealers? Pimps? Smack some ho's?"

"**** no. There's a goddam demom darknight living over on Herderson and Main. Go bury your boot in it."

"Ok"

">POOF< Now your an avatar. Go kill that demon. Don't forget to put big, nasty holes in any vampires you see."

and he was gone.

So I head into choir practice and sit down next to Ed who happens to be a cop.

"Guess what just happened."

"You washed your hands."

"And I became an avatar."

"That must be some good soap. Naw seriously, congrats. I met Yaweah once. Nice god."

--two hours later--

"Die demon. I got this boot for you!"

"Step away from the demon with your hands up. Drop that sword of wrath."

"Ed, it's me! Don't shoot!"

"I don't care who you are. Step away from the demon and quit praying to the same god as me."

"Ed! It's a demon. It's killed a google and a half people!"

"But it was all done outside of the city limits so I don't care."

"Ed quit shooting me! Ow that hurts! Ow stop!"

And the demon killed me.

-the end-

nice, and prooves the point very well.

ahahaha that was funny.

idea: give the arest power to ALL cabals that fight. prisons are for POWs too. that way a good can take a good out of action without killing them

Chaotic good should be allowed to kill a lawful good in defense of being arrested. They should not be allowed to go after them directly because that would be malicious behavior that goods dont do to goods. But lets face it, the chaotic good believes he is in the right and should be allowed to resist arrest to the point of death to avoid his own execution.

I think there should be repercussion, perhaps being outlawed for one. I do not think he should be outcast and I do not think any hardcoded punishment like damnation should occur.

While the story certainly made me chuckle, it also missed the point entirely.

1. Although characters might, that's because they are the favored of the Gods, so to speak. For the vast majority of the FL world, people don't.

2. I'll wager most good in Justice also believe that killing demons/undead is a good thing. BUT, it disrupts social order when done IN the city, for overall detriment.

3. YOU CAN SURRENDER! If you commit a crime, it's because you CHOOSE to put yourself at odds with another goods, and REFUSE to surrender.

So let's rearrange this a bit.

""Die demon. I got this boot for you!"

"Damnit, why'd you go and kill people in town, man? Now I have to take you in."

"Go to hell, man! It's a freakin' demon."

"Dude, not in town. Kill him in any of the other 60+ areas we have in the world, just not in town. I don't like demons either; hell, I hunt them down in my spare time, but not in town, man."

"Who cares? What are you going to do, capture me?"

"Come on, man, don't be like that. Put the weapon down, just surrender."

"Surrender? Hell with that, I'll fight you instead!"

And then he shot Ed.

And no. In FL, if you are willing to kill another good man to save yourself, that makes you evil. Or at least outcast.

Sure you can surrender, but if you know your crime will cause execution, that doesnt do much for the way in doing all you can not to die does it? and thats a rule.

I can make bs conversations all day.

So let's rearrange this a bit.

""Die demon. I got this boot for you!"

"Damnit, why'd you go and kill people in town, man? Now I have to take you in."

"It isn't 'people'! It's a freakin' demon."

"Dude, not in town. Kill him in any of the other 60+ areas we have in the world, just not in town. I don't like demons either; hell, I hunt them down in my spare time, but not in town, man."

"He wouldn't be here in town if he didn't know that you were here to protect him. He didn't come for the spagetti. What's up with that? Are you his bitch? Is he your demon lover?"

"No! I'm defending the law!"

"Which law? I defending the law of YOUR god."

"I'm defending the law that was given to me by that vampire who is my boss. He makes me call him 'Pretty Fly for a Dead Guy'. And I have to buff his armor."

"So you'd rather work for a vamp, defend a demon, and attack an avatar?"

"Yup. Bang you're dead."

Allowing yourself to keep another goody from doing so has never been bad RP.

And exactly, Myrek. Anyone can make BS conversations that are slanted towards their viewpoint. Which is why they have very little value in a meaningful discussion.

Try to include a fluffy white rabbit next time.

But it is funny. You have to give me that. I am serious about that POW idea.

edit:

"Allowing yourself to keep another goody from doing so has never been bad RP."

Are you serious!?!

It IS funny. That point is totally conceded.

What was the idea again?

And I'm totally serious.

For example, healers are the best example of this. When someone's about to die, they push'm away, and take the deathblow for themself. Or a paladin who, despite being in awful condition, sees his friend about to die and rescues them, dying instead. Or, heck, even a naked guy who runs to defend his cabal, even though he knows he's probably gonna die.

There's even non-altruistic cases; for example, blademasters who kill themselves when they are about to die (that one blm skill), rather than let their enemies kill them.

Death is to be avoided, but there's cases/instances where it makes RP sense to go to your doom, if you know it means that another goody is saved by doing so.

That's always been my interpretation, btw. IMP's interpretations, of course, supersede mine at all times.

Sure you can surrender' date=' but if you know your crime will cause execution, that doesnt do much for the way in doing all you can not to die does it? and thats a rule.[/quote']

It's your fault. You committed the crime.

What bothers me about all this is the statement that this places some sort of restriction on RP. How is that? All RP has consequences of some type or another. You accept some liability for how your character acts and interacts with other characters, right? No one's RP is restricted. Consider it a bellweather of how committed to that RP you are.

"O Great Irumeru...grant me your power...I will smite the evil wherever it festers."

"Great...you're an avatar. Smite that necromancer over there chugging a brew at The Crow's Nest."

"Uh...O Great One...that is inside a town. I'll get in trouble."

[insert loud and horrifying shredding and wailing sounds]

Sorry. You can't just do whatever you want anymore in town without feeling the heat. You might as well accept that fact and begin to learn new ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish. Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. The old ways don't work any more but there are plenty of new things to exploit to your advantage. Again, as I said elsewhere, no one is bothering to find out what they are.

(Especially fascinating is that the playerbase ASKED for this many moons ago when Viri made Royal Cabals go away and many times since)

but its not "feeling the heat" Id rather get slayed by the immortals, it would save me the five minutes of gathering mithril before im killed again.

and noone asked for an overpowered cabal, they jsut asked that they be joined.

not to mention the question at hand, is about goods defending their selves against other goods. not the cabal.

That's outlaw life, when skilled players are in Justice. When the cabal is empty, outlaw flag is essentially meaningless (except for the shoppies).

In fact, life is easier for outlaws in the sense that there's now ways for the wanted flag to be removed. In the past, being outlaw meant either kill the Justices, or condeath.

Its almost NO diffrent, you have to beg for the wanetd flag to go away, and id like to see anyone wanting syndi or watche rbeg the jsutice. Most outlaws would be in thosse two cabals. therefor being utterly pointless.

The difficulty of an outlaw life corresponds directly with the skill of the Justices/Tribunals.

Just like the difficulty of a Justice/Tribunal life correlates directly with the skill of the outlaws. That's how it's always been.

Tribunal isn't new, it's been out for months. Remember how badly they got pasted then? Not sure if you were here for that, but it was pretty damn bad. The entire RP plot of retaking Val Miran/Miruvhor had to be put on hold, because there were essentially no Tribunals at all.

That's outlaw life, when skilled players are in Justice. When the cabal is empty, outlaw flag is essentially meaningless (except for the shoppies).

In fact, life is easier for outlaws in the sense that there's now ways for the wanted flag to be removed. In the past, being outlaw meant either kill the Justices, or condeath.

I also had to go against my rp and kiss tribunals butt to get my outlaw status removed which I simply could not do. I'm still an outlaw today at a low rank for committing a crime I did not think was a crime. Tribunals have to much power and their are too many undefined rules and fine lines. I don't think anything in the game should emphasize kiling and fool-looting another character over and over, that's just ridiculous. After I heard that, as an outlaw, you are automatically executed and full looted, you keep your outlaw status forever, I couldn't believe it. And tribunals are supposed to cater to the newbies and mediocre players of the realm? I don't even see extremly strong caballed characters able to deal with this. Just name one.

Your situation was already discussed on the prayers forum.

Outlaws have ALWAYS been auto-executed and auto-looted. This is nothing new, again, and the way Justice always worked as well. Again, an example of something that is unchanged, and complained about ONLY because there was a period of time when the Justice cabal did not exist.

There has been a suggestion made, however, that after outlaws are captured, the 'Wanted' flag be removed if the outlaw came from being Wanted. It's under consideration.

With regard to being 'killed and looted over and over again', that's how PK works, especially caballed PK.

Nor are Tribunals unkillable. In fact, I've statted them all, and every single one of them, even the vampire, has taken multiple deaths. They simply can't come here and tell you, because that would be against forum rules of no-character-revealing.