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Why Not Prevent Equipment Loss From Crash...

Preventative maintenance... 

Record and delete the characters eq vnums in two places (obj_to_char and obj_from_char) and every time they pick up or drop a limited item autosave. When characters log in if they arent carrying xxx vnums a signal 11 must have occurred, autoload those vnums onto the player. 

YES players should manage their inventory, however as it was stated in a recent thread that Gear and or some quest areas are buggy. Getting ALL to bring things back to town for a friend who is waiting for you requires people to overload themselves, if a crash occurs around the same time as these time consuming adventures players should have a reliable safety net. 

Anyhow, thats my final input, feel free to keep fighting whats in the best interest of the players :) 

UC

Why must you incessantly take jabs at someone every time you make a post? Do you act like this in real life, or is this just your internet persona?  I fully believe you are someone that has ideas that could benefit the players here, and more than likely everyone around you in your personal environment. But you keep perpetuating this idea that it's the Staff vs the Players, and that's just not true.  Thank you for your input on your ideas about code changes.  Please stop taking shots at people in every post you make. I have yet to ban someone while I've been a staff member. However, the passive aggressive stuff gets under my skin pretty bad and you may be the first person I do. I hope not.

Agreed with pinky man.

Even though I suffer(ed) often from crashes because I regulardly carry excessive amounts of rares in my inventory, and this idea would benefit me a lot (if it gets implemented and I return to play, eventually), your behaviour makes anyone want to stay away from anything connected to you (the irony is great here, isn't it :) ).

What you suggest is a quality of life change. It has no downside. If the staff decides to grace its players with it, then we will all be grateful, like we were when they decided to not purge over the limit rares from our inventories on every shift (what a lovely change). If not, I am sure it will be only because they have something more important on their hands.

@Zoichan lighten up, im sarcastic ;) 

I apologize for posting good ideas that are met with brick wall responses that force me to elaborate more than i thought i would have to, but thats what forums are for right ?  :) 

UC

Ok. If that is truly the case, then let me tell you this with love: You don't do internet sarcasm well. No one does actually.

The idea in itself is noble and would help, but adding it could offer a chance for others to abuse it a great deal if they can figure out how to do so. For instance the bug tracker on the forum where we could post and see what others put albeit without actual handles on them which allowed others to figure out who played who. As Anume had stated though, there is preventative measure built in that I didn't even know about until just recently when I was online during a crash that forced everyone online off entirely and I was over the limit then. I logged back in, and I still had those items, but I was only 1 over and not several over so maybe that is the preventative measure on it.

I know you mean well with a lot of your suggestions and many of them could be very feasible. The problem isn't so much the ideas themselves but how you go about answering always seems to put you on extreme defensive in many cases. It's hard to gauge sarcasm via text, so your best method is to point out exactly when you're doing it, but even then I would highly suggest you refrain from doing so in general because what's sarcastic to you will only guarantee you pissing someone else off causing another issue altogether. For the future if you have code ideas, I'd say post it to Prayer or even the sub forum that was started. The reason being is that it allows Imms to discuss if it would be appropriate to add it to the game and you may even help get your point across faster than posting publicly simply because there's less to sift through in other people's responses since they wouldn't know of the post unless it's posted here.

Is this a good idea? Sure. But there needs to be more checks added to it in order for it to be concrete and less capable of being abused. I'm sure that's the very reason why most code isn't posted publicly because even the worst of us at being able to write it could still read it and figure out a way to exploit it in some way. If you suggest things via Prayer, other people wont lose their shit though, and since you're going to be the only one who can read it outside of Imms, it also gives you the chance to not get side tracked. I've made plenty of suggestions over the years both openly and via Prayer, and at least half of the ones I suggested via Prayer were actually taken into account and some things were changed because of them. Any time I've suggested something via Ideas though it just ends up being me completely for it and despite the overall idea being good, someone has to come in and pick apart one sentence in an otherwise decent idea which just makes me not want to post any ideas anymore because of it. Prayer. Just go there,  and you have fewer headaches overall and you typically get answers directly from the people who are going to have the final word able to comment more constructively even.

2 hours ago, Unknown Criminal said:

@Zoichan lighten up, im sarcastic ;) 

I apologize for posting good ideas that are met with brick wall responses that force me to elaborate more than i thought i would have to, but thats what forums are for right ?  :) 

UC

This isn't sarcasm, it's self-congratulatory passive aggressiveness.  You think your ideas are good, you interpret explanations for why they are being rejected as brick walls - neither are facts.  A post like this doesn't serve to disarm the situation, it just makes you seem arrogant and incapable of participating in a good-faith discussion.

When people read words on a screen their own moods and feeling interpret the context, some people see a black and white TV where I just see an old TV. I dont apologize for happily typing forum content when I think its for the better.

My ideas are always good because they revolve around a player or a situation where a player is getting screwed over, however my ideas dont always fit with everyone elses vision or direction (thats cool, its not my game). A self-congratulatory belief in my ideas and opinions is why ive always been a strong leader in the real world, ive been a top operations manager for every company ive ever worked for because of my problem solving skills. (if there is an issue, it should be fixed) 

The brick walls im talking about are the dead end comebacks like (yeah but, what about, that wont work, what if, etc etc) that dont serve any purpose of growth. People will acknowledge a problem and then shoot down every fix for it because someone might abuse something with the fix which is completely idiotic to me, abuse is good! Why? Because once you fix the bug you can continue to patch the following abuse if any shows up, the holes become smaller and smaller until they vanish.

Every player every shift SHOULD be trying to abuse something and then rewarded handsomely for finding loopholes, why leave the crap work of bug hunting to 1-2-3 immortals when you have 5-10 other people you can have do it with you. 

Some people are right, some people are wrong are some people are content wafting their own farts from under a blanket as they mash their keyboard trying to be the best.

As a scrum manager for a major financial institution for a group that does nothing but code let me say this.  If you think someone coming back and "yeah but, what if, that won't work, what about" are brick wall answers you have things mixed up.

I want to hear this things in my meeting and discussions.  That's how you find those loopholes/issues before pushing the code.  Or how you find better ways to do things.  The fact that someone came into this forum to state those things mean they read your idea, they thought about it and presented possible obstacles / ideas.  Yes, maybe there are some brick walls, welcome to the collaborative effort.

I like your ideas in general and would hope you continue to have some. I would also hope you can come back and take criticism.  The fact that is is abusable, makes it hard to implement as is and that's what most people are saying.

To the staff, in most part, you guys are super respective, however sometimes you are very off putting (like all of us at times). Instead of saying. Saying that won't work because x, why not That might work, however, how do you seeing getting around x.

I also agree this would work best in prayer or something.

Let's all step back and appreciate we for the most part, we are all here to make this place better.

1 hour ago, Unknown Criminal said:

My ideas are always good because they revolve around a player or a situation where a player is getting screwed over

No, that just means they are created with good intentions - not that your proposed solution to the problem at hand is a good one.  It also doesn't mean that the way you present those ideas is necessarily going to be a good one either, because in any collaborative effort you need to convince people that your ideas are good, not just tell people they are.  Approaching any discourse with a perspective of "I'm always right" is automatically going to be off-putting to many of the people you are attempting to work with and make it harder for them to want to work with you or listen to your ideas with an open-mind; when someone we dislike suggests something, we're predisposed to reject it regardless of its merits simply because of the source.  One of the best ways to convince anyone of something is to start by making them like you as a person, and presenting a self-important know-it-all persona doesn't usually accomplish that.  Maybe when you're the team leader and can give orders you can get away with this, but not when you're just part of the group offering suggestions.

Edited

ROFL, my ideas are always good.

You're just reflecting your own insecurities. 

you ego maniac.  :taunt:

did I do it right?

19 minutes ago, Pali said:

presenting a self-important know-it-all persona

Yeah, all those q-slots are full on this forum. Sorry guys :P

Buncha aasholes

1 hour ago, Celerity said:

Yeah, all those q-slots are full on this forum. Sorry guys :P

Take notes @Unknown Criminal, that's what a good burn looks like.

So I post things stating my opinion that (I'm 100% right with in my own pov) While at the same time acknowledge that other people may have different opinions about what I post, all good.

I get brick walled by a few replies so of course I try to elaborate where I'm coming from with what I origionally posted, cool, I'll do my best to dumb things down.

I then receive a backhanded banning threat from an imm for explaining my idea differently that some others would which is fine, I'm not a clone of your favorite person.

Now the entire post turns into what the last few posts consisted of... yet, I'm the one who provided the building block of content to try and help these same people from being screwed over.... 

There was a couple 'on the right track' comments but mostly 'but but but whatif' and 'won't work'.  I apprecate  the personal jabs for wasting my time trying to contribute to the community, enjoy this last one.

UC

Edited

sigh

It's not that we don't appreciate the offer of volunteering to help make the game better. It's not even really the idea itself that's the issue here. It's more along the lines that if someone were to figure out a way to get around the code and abuse it, they will. I've thought of things in the past that seemed like it shouldn't be done at all and figured I'd give it a go to see if it stuck and actually could be used after the fact. For instance when you can bind an item to your character for the level  multiplied by 12 or whatever it was for 20 days in a Cabal. Some high end items were level 0. So this is a example of what could happen:

Person A has a bad ass item that is level 0, grants you the ability to dish out pain for a tick or three. That person binds that item to themselves so that it can never be in circulation again or until their character dies and never says a thing about it but they know they're exploiting it while other people don't even think of trying this out for themselves. This person ends up being around for over a year while doing this because it gives them an edge over other people despite the fact they don't really need that edge, but eventually they get bored and quit playing them.

Person B comes through a couple years later and comes across this same item that's completely bad ass and it benefits them only minimally, but they decide to give it a go and hold onto it. Eventually they get rid of this item though because it was only taking up rare/unique slots that they would rather use for something more pertinent to their character and style of PK without realizing what Person A did.

Person C creates a similar race/class combo as Player A had a few years ago and decides that they want to see if they could reproduce the same success. They go back through the forums to find out what that person wore or even still had logs showing what they did and they go about collecting those items. Eventually they come across the bad ass item and don't think of it either the entire time, manage to die and lose that item to someone that Person A is now playing who grabs said item again and starts the cycle over.

Eventually Person B manages to get  the item again a couple years after that since the uses of it cater more towards their class they're playing finally. They decide that they want to enhance each piece of EQ they have by making it burnproof and all that jazz and they contemplate the binding some of the items not easy to get but decide that they're going to try it out on the one item that Person A had for so long may be worth it because quite frankly it's not hardly ever in which makes it difficult to obtain unless you just so happen to know for a fact that it's in through OOC means typically due to some people carrying over knowledge from other characters. To me it's not a huge deal because I don't care how people get their info, just as long as it's factual and doesn't affect the overall game. Person B owners that item, but due to the level being 0, they don't get CPs taken away because of it. At that point the player may be wondering whether it was a fluke or a bug and take it to Prayer.

Come to find out it's never been reported before. An item in the game that hasn't changed ever, and nothing was ever said.

That's what happens when it comes to bugs or work arounds. For every honest person out there, there's at least 12 more who aren't. Half of my family are like that, and that's just how the world seems to work. This is the very reason why I suggest that if you want to post code, do so in the Prayer section. Your idea for this is great. The execution could be worked on though. The older we get certain qualities tend to come out more as we age. With you I've always noticed that you get very defensive about things and you feel that regardless of what someone else may say, you're always right. It could be true for all I know, and I can say that I'm the exact same way. When I was working I always was in a Leader role myself. I was telling people who had higher positions than I did what to do because I was always right. Not because what I said, but how I said it and the confidence I had to back it up with. My major downfall though is rage. Out of everything I had done at my job, regardless of how many things I did right, that flaw ultimately held me back from promotions. In this case if people don't seem to agree with you 100%, you shut down and then 'dumb it down' further. Most of the time they don't need it to be dumbed down for them. It's not clarity that they're really seeking, they just see that it could potentially start a trend of abuse, and until all of it has been completely checked to prevent it from being abused, you're going to ALWAYS come across that sort of issue when you present it to others. This is why you should do it in Prayer though. If the idea is actually implemented it means it's that much harder for someone to figure out how to exploit it since they didn't see the code lines for it to begin with.

As I said, the idea itself is great. I like it. But don't get upset when you get a bunch of people telling you what could go wrong with it. What you had hosted and created in the code you have, that's there. Do you have 5+ players who play long hours who purposely try to find a way to abuse something in order to gain the upper hand though in PK? If you do, that's fine, but otherwise they're apples and oranges at this point. You can't even compare FL to AR or CF at this point. Sure a lot of things may be the same, but the code was released in 2005? How many changes have gone through since then making information unreliable? A lot. The same can be said about the other two games too. I'm sure you can bring up the point that if you got in with Crypticant  the code he had was even newer than that of the released code from Virigoth. Even then though too much time has gone by to just make blatant accusations of something and present it as proof because you feel you're right whether anyone else believes so or not. If you don't want to continue fleshing it out though, that's fine too. No one is going to think any less of you for it. The game has come a long ways in many aspects, and sure Erelei may add in things that people question, but it's a game. I try to keep up on my Inventory at all times, and if I know I'm over the limit, I thank the Gods that there's a fucking sort command now. Remember when you couldn't do that shit? I lost things back then and even once everything because I was training on scarecrows and the game crashed. Since I came back though I've lost maybe 3 or so things. If I didn't lost anything, that would be amazing too, but again that goes back to please post any of your code to Prayer. Even if it's ignored completely, at least you posted it and if they come back to it and say that yeah they fucked up, rub it in then, not before you gave it a chance.

Allow me to publicly say this for the 577436773th time, in case anyone is unclear, since old code talk is coming back...

 

The code released by viri is so out of date that using it to make a case or point would be like Great Grandma Gertrude using her knitting experience to teach a teenage girl how to text. 

 

It's old. It was never intended to be up to date. Even when it was publicly released, it was already old and outdated. So with that in mind, please don't reference it as if it can give any relevant insight to the current code.

 

As to the pressing issue... @Unknown Criminal, you are acting as if you're getting personally persecuted anytime anyone doesn't support your ideas 150%. Then when confronted it becomes "sarcasm". You really need to learn to take criticism. It shouldn't need to end up with Erelei having to break it down on a coder level every time. This suggestion is a QoL suggestion that opens the door to abuse, where there is already several QoLs in place to mitigate that, PLUS the ability to post in prayer or send a note in game if something does need to be restored. 

 

'Save' after every important item. 'Sort' your inventory to protect what you need most. Contact us if a crash jumps your stuff. It's all a straightforward process.

2 hours ago, Lloth said:

The code released by viri is so out of date that using it to make a case or point would be like Great Grandma Gertrude using her knitting experience to teach a teenage girl how to text.

That's a terrible analogy. :rofl:

It's more like trying to figure out how a formula 1 car works by looking under the bonnet of your own car.