@f0xxI do not believe this suggestion is to give the rangers a bonus in combat vs. death weaver/horse stance. I believe the suggestion is made from the frustration of finally having the combination of pets you desire, and not having an avenue to "store" them while you travel to the end game areas with another pet heavy character. Yes, the ranger can call them back, but its a process. He loses a day or so after returning from an epic battle. Yeah, he got adeptus arms, but now the mammoth is ignoring him. Pain in his arse. I believe they mean this as a quality of life change. I like the Idea of tying this suggestion to the city stables. Would it still work in some way to change pk for those stances? Yes. Will it be marginalized by the ranger having to go to a town (rangers being more adept in forest settings) to store his pets where the blademaster can catch him in the street? Yes.
If a ranger wants to get rid of his pets it's easy, like it's been said:
Put them in a room and quaff pass door.
Just flee from PK and leave them there.
Turn off autoassist, Order them to kill a mob and walk away.
Put them where you want and quaff a recall.
Have a thief or ninja KO them.
Have a necro or shaman sleep them.
Ive done ALL of these and have kept asking myself why do i have to keep jumping through the hoops, I'm obviously able to leave them wherever I want, it's not like they poof when left alone ;)
For PK when people fight rangers or necros or dark knights etc they expect pets and charmies, so if one rolls up on you without them you know they are obviously nearby.
For RP or hunting purposes why can't I leave my charmies at home, or sit them outside the caverns/pentagram while I'm grouped with higher ranked pets.
Same as for traveling purposes, how many times have you set up a group and told people to get rid of their pets because they keep screwing up the grouped ones or getting room spelled by mistake.
Why did we get stow if the "put all.leaves bag" was so easy?
Why did we get to assign a name to a bag if "put pill 1.bag; put pill 2.bag; put pill 3.bag" is so easy?
Because it's a quality of life change. Not all changes need to be for balance. Some things are suggested to make annoying things easy and easy things easier.
If it's so easy, why not just do it instead of asking for a "stay" command?
Because I can RP with a stay command in ways I cannot without one.
Honestly, I don't think you really have a problem with this suggestion for its own sake - you'd have better arguments if you did, and you've demonstrated in many other discussions your capacity for making such. I think your problem here is with the general push to make FL more user-friendly and a bit less demanding of players by some of us, and this is simply one expression of that push, and you want to push back. Now, I don't think that is an unfair position to take - you want to preserve what you see as part of FL's allure for you, nothing wrong there - but it seems to bias you to the point that half of the arguments and positions people have offered in this thread you have flat out ignored, and instead you attack the motivations of many of the people disagreeing with you. I suggested adding lag to the command twice - once generally in response to Celerity before you even entered the thread, and once specifically to you as part of a larger post attempting to respond to your concerns - and that suggestion was ignored both times as you continued to complain about the PK balance aspects. You only finally addressed the lag suggestion after I very specifically demanded you do so by mentioning it a third time... and your response was to finally agree that this, with potentially also a timer, would in your eyes sufficiently address the balance concerns. You have consistently ignored (or mocked) the quality of life benefits proposed, and dismissed or ignored the RP benefits proposed, only to continue to make posts like the one I've quoted here as if we haven't already answered that question in multiple ways.
This is not holding a discussion in good faith, or with an open mind.
I told you I agree with the change as long as it is properly implemented (with lag and timer).
You are completely right that this argument is bad and that's why I used it as a counter argument only when someone else uses it. "We can already easily do it anyway" is not a good argument. And no, you can not easily do it already anyway. It takes obtaining a consumable, finding a door and so on.... it's not "easily" doable, otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting it. The whole point of having pets is to not be able to easy station them somewhere whenever you like, because pets offer quite a PK advantage. With lag and timer those concerns are taken care of.
So yeah, I just wanted to show how silly UC's argument is, by using the same thing. No idea why he keeps arguing with me when I've already agreed on it.
I didn't bother reading too much of this thread because its actually pretty dumb.
Any ranger worth his salt will employ either of these two tactics against a blademaster:
Order all sleep. Kill the BLM
Order all wake. Kill the BLM
Never have I seen a ranger have an issue with a BLM if they are using this technique. If they are smart, the'll even just wake 1 pet and use it for rescuing. Then thunderstorm the shite out of people. Shoot from a far. Literally.. The ranger skillset, I personally believe, is the best for opposing a BLM.
EDIT:
Oh, add a third tactic:
Autofire on/off.
Problem solved. Lets argue about something else. Like DK's needing a tone. Or berserkers needing a boost. MUCH more interesting.
I AM FOR THE COMMAND SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF ITS IMPACT TO PVE. AS A RANGER SOLOING THE WORLDS YOUR PETS ARE GOING TO DIE IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM STAY.
IF YOU COULD DOCK THEM A ROOM AWAY FROM A BOSS THAT DOES NOT HUNT, THEN YOU COULD SPEND SOME TIME WEAKENING THE BOSS BEFORE GOING IN FOR THE KILL AND HAVING THE PETS FINISH THEM OFF.
HOWEVER, AS IT IS NOW, YOUR PETS DIE AND UNLESS YOU CAN CALL THEM BACK, WHICH IS NOT AN OPTION IN MANY AREAS, YOU ARE JUST OUT OF LUCK FOR THE REST OF THE TRIP.
FRANKLY THE WAY IT IS NOW IS JUST POOR CODING. I BLAME VIRIGOTH.
Oh, and another RP situation where your pets or charmies get plagued and you don't wanna run them through town because I think spreading plague is an offense? And it's not cool if 1 pet or charmie get plagued because you can't separate them, release would suck if you can't re summon where sitting that 1 pet by itself for a few hours makes sense.
Oh, and another RP situation where your pets or charmies get plagued and you don't wanna run them through town because I think spreading plague is an offense? And it's not cool if 1 pet or charmie get plagued because you can't separate them, release would suck if you can't re summon where sitting that 1 pet by itself for a few hours makes sense.
In all fairness, this is actually another case where RP benefits and PK (or even PvE) balance are a bit at odds - pets being able to spread plague, to each other, mobs, and you, is a power downside to having pets, and the easier it is to leave your pets somewhere, the less that downside matters. Of course, this can be avoided by leaving your pets elsewhere in the myriad other ways available to do so, and the balance aspect I think remains largely handled by the lag/timer suggestions - you're still at risk of catching the plague while you spend time ordering your pets to stay, and if they catch it again quickly right after you retrieve them, you're stuck with them for a while and have to deal with the results of your lack of caution.
Oh, and another RP situation where your pets or charmies get plagued and you don't wanna run them through town because I think spreading plague is an offense?
What do you think about the stay command, @Kyzarius?
The only issue I have with this is that there are other priorities that can be focused on. While this might be nice to have, it will take time from other things that are needed.
The only issue I have with this is that there are other priorities that can be focused on. While this might be nice to have, it will take time from other things that are needed.
I honestly don't think that implementing this would take that long. Erelei seems quite adept at coding, after all. He's quickly implemented bag nicknames among other things, for example, in recent times. But yes, there are other priorities that can be focused on. Then again, sometimes doing something as easy or mundane as this is a good break from some of the more major overhauls or necessary changes. Or an unnecessary distraction.
I think having the pets follow you around is the price for having rather buff charmies on an already combat proficent class.
Beastmasters are stupid easy to play as is.
The pets get double rounds on autoassist, and people use this to great effect. If rangers could easily avoid plague spreading amongst their pets, or drop them off in a pinch to camo then they would become even more rediculous. As it is plaguing pets is the only recourse you get since the opening round from a naked ranger with all their pets still hits.for around 200hp. Thats nearly 20% of your average casters hp.
You want a timer? Dismiss the pet, then call another. Run through a door to shed them.
This should never be allowed for classes that do not have innate pets either.
Its literally a 15 second code change so it will either be judged a game enhancement or not.
Another situation is if i can tell a groupmate to sit so he doesnt get killed while i go tank a room of swinging mobs I should be able to tell my charmie to sit for the same purpose, sure I can walk in and 'order all sleep', however, im sure many people have done this only to have the mob your fighting cast fireball or something.
The argument of pets/charmies are your strength and your curse doesnt really make sense when your purposely trying to weaken yourself by not having them, a ranger with no pets doesnt scare me in the least, a necro with no pets doesnt scare me in the least, a dk with no pets doesnt scare me in the least(well, depending, lol).