Athunasu Beast Druid Watcher vs Kalivar Undead Thief Nexus

[Anonymous]

By all means, those that say thieves are easy to PK with, roll one up.

I highly doubt anyone will do much better against this PBase. 

 

Kalivar

 

[kamikazi]

I think an easy fix to the problem would be to give thieves circle side step (the gladiator skill that used to come from close combat) . Lose pry/plant. Keep steal, cause...thieves. And adjust their thaco a little bit, to be able to compete to the melee output of the other melee oriented classes. 

[Mmm Coffee]

Non-gladiator thieves can't be played like melee tanks.  You fought that entire PK on the druid's terms.  In a forest, in a lightning area, you only appeared to use two traps.  I saw you looking at the druid so you must be using detect magic but didn't time his poison.  Even if you had landed the blackjacks, he would have woken.  You never kicked dirt to try for flee/murder.  You never used your qskill but maybe the druid has an immunity, I don't recall.  Since this was all from the druid's perspective it's hard to say anything else.  I would focus on stealing more stuff before engaging if you know it's going to be a long fight.  Before you know it they're on water without flight or recall.  Something like that.  You have to be crafty at times to be a good thief.

[Anonymous]

36 minutes ago, Mmm Beer said:

Non-gladiator thieves can't be played like melee tanks.  You fought that entire PK on the druid's terms.  In a forest, in a lightning area, you only appeared to use two traps.  I saw you looking at the druid so you must be using detect magic but didn't time his poison.  Even if you had landed the blackjacks, he would have woken.  You never kicked dirt to try for flee/murder.  You never used your qskill but maybe the druid has an immunity, I don't recall.  Since this was all from the druid's perspective it's hard to say anything else.  I would focus on stealing more stuff before engaging if you know it's going to be a long fight.  Before you know it they're on water without flight or recall.  Something like that.  You have to be crafty at times to be a good thief.

1. Can't pry/plant on a transformed werebeast. There goes "softening" my target.

2. The damage was too fast that any 2 round lag ability would have gotten me killed.

3. He defused my antimagic traps, so there goes dispelling poison so I can use 90% of my skills. Brambus Needler was hitting a dismember and my damage was horrendous despite having God-tier equipment.

4. I don't think anyone here can name a "decent" thief in recent memory that wasn't a Gladiator. People keep saying "be crafty", but its difficult to be crafty when they know what you're going to do because that's what you HAVE to do to win and even when I DO this is my damage:

Quote

back glim
Glimick fades into existence.
Your backstab *** DEMOLISHES *** Glimick!
Your second backstab MUTILATES Glimick!
Glimick has some small wounds and bruises. 

Kalivar: [100][===|===|===|===]
hp:962/962 mv:333/549 mv:382/441

You dodge Glimick's attack.
An obsidian plummet tears into your nerves.
You dodge some ectoplasm solid's attack.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your corruption misses Glimick.
Your divine power wounds Glimick.
Your corruption injures Glimick.
Your corruption injures Glimick.
Glimick is shocked by the lightning from the Chaos Rod.
Your shocking bite grazes Glimick.
Kalivar's Purger adorned with a fel charm draws life from Glimick.
Your life drain misses Glimick.
Glimick has some small wounds and bruises. 

Now, you tell me how a thief that lands the nigh-impossible blackjack on a Savant(poison and reverse time on blackjack make it a crapshoot) only does THAT kind of damage against a gnome psi when I have 55hit/58dam + haste w/ one avg 31 spear and another avg27 spear. 

I don't buy it.

 

Kalivar

 

[kamikazi]

Yeah...on a gnome of all things. Is AC still OP ?

[hotspring monkey]

I did score my only kills on Savant druid with gladiator thief via landed antimagic and after that only because gladiator forms. I did try the same with Lisko previously. Sarcon's other druids did stick around in bush as long as it was convenient for them, but eventually just druid gated away if I was even close getting a kill. And Kotrag didn't even bother going after druids afaik

With Durwin (undead syndi thief) I caught egreirs Watcher werebeast druid spamming control weather at Gor'gorak and without druid sanc. I managed to abduct him. I did the murder flee dance while it was lagged. It did cut the lag by disconnecting and logging back in. Ha, I had barely scratched him without him having sanc. He ate my traps and waltzed away happily. Then re entered the combat and just did some quickclaw and reaped me a new arsehole. 

After that I told him that I won't bother with his butt no longer, as even when I find them pants down and their hand knee deep in their bunghole - I can't do a thing to them damagewise. I had good set of gear too. Tanky, bush invokers  

 

[mya]

Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.

1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.

2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.

 

[Anonymous]

6 minutes ago, mya said:

Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.

1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.

2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.

 

1. Notice how I changed weapons when I saw the ice shield? That spear is 2handed.

2. Perhaps you don't know this, so I'll let you in on the secret, @mya, the scroll of defusion defuses any trap that isn't a mechanism(recent change). Also, your advice is to not use a dispel trap because of saves, but to use another trap that is savable.. Sound logic you got there...

 

If ANYONE thinks they can do better, like I said, roll it up. I'm seeing a lot of tactics and strategies that worked in a different era of FL. I'm seeing a lot of people say just do this or that and you win, but if you know to do "this or that", doesn't my opponent as well?

There are a few people that have actually played a thief responding that know how difficult it is. 

 

 

Kalivar

 

[Archbishop Monk]

26 minutes ago, mya said:

Thieves aren't easy vs skiled oponents, but skilled thieves are a nightmare.

1° You were using ice weapons vs someone with ice shield. I have no idea why you just dual flaming daggers, and circled him while he was at the commander, dirted and chased with fire edged daggers. The spear in NW val miran is fire rare. The multiplier is x2 and vuln is just x1.5. Fire/ice shield is a huge spell but has a huge counter. And he cant cancel it, i think.

2° you were using the dispel trap vs a mage with high saves. You have a selection of other traps, perhaps use them insted of dispel. Eyedust is amazing, specialty if you steal gyvels. Good luck quafing healing potions blind.

 

2. Your second point is somewhat moot since druids can create their own cure blind potions.  They can also only be touched by druids, so you cannot steal them

['tarako]

This falls under dated advice. It worked years and years ago. It doesn't work anymore.

[mya]

You didn't change to fire weapons. They are non rare avg24 weapons, you should have a set of fire and ice daggers on packs and throwing daggers. The spear is for edging.

Different ppl have different saves. I doubt he has that high mal saves. You can also pilfer the potions.

Or try another kind of trap, like blackspore if you are afraid of defusing.

Chief says She is Wolf, and tainted slash is their werepower which means physical resist. And you were using slash, pierce and corruption.

I also suspect corruption to be physical damage. But unsure ATM.

 

 

[hotspring monkey]

GIT MYA'd.

It is really sound advice though. Instead of petting, you can try heavy petting your cat. That is the difference you get against druids, the tanky invokers of bushes and adjusting to their chosen shield with proper weapons.

Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.

If there is a cabal war and CTF is on the table, Camp at your cabal guardian. Force them to hit antimagic, if it fails. Reset.
Or try to feign them to follow you ... to your traps. Oh damn, best thief trick revealed! 

[Anonymous]

2 minutes ago, hotspring monkey said:

GIT MYA'd.

It is really sound advice though. Instead of petting, you can try heavy petting your cat. That is the difference you get against druids, the tanky invokers of bushes and adjusting to their chosen shield with proper weapons.

Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.

If there is a cabal war and CTF is on the table, Camp at your cabal guardian. Force them to hit antimagic, if it fails. Reset.
Or try to feign them to follow you ... to your traps. Oh damn, best thief trick revealed! 

It is good information.

You mean have them follow you when they have detect traps scroll up that lasts for 60ticks and defuse traps scroll in their bound backpack that I can’t steal? I wonder why this never works... 😜(I’ve tried this... a lot... it’s basically the only thing I can do.)

I never got set against the Druid to fight. I was checking some damage with vuln dagger, which wasn’t good, I don’t think silver vuln is going through physical resist which it should, imo.

Its been a frustrating route when you need to land blackjack to do any of your skills, but can’t land blackjack because of poison in bound bags, defuse trap scrolls, or when they do hit it, it’s saved. The blackjacks I DID try here, I did on purpose knowing poison was up to see if it can land vs her -ac. It didn’t land. 

I don’t think thieves are in a good spot and I don’t like the idea of having to pry hard earned EQ to debuff them if I ever manage to land blackjack.

 

Kalivar

 

[hotspring monkey]

9 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

You mean have them follow you when they have detect traps scroll up that lasts for 60ticks and defuse traps scroll in their bound backpack that I can’t steal? I wonder why this never works... 😜(I’ve tried this... a lot... it’s basically the only thing I can do.)

You could have trapped your temple there, knowing it will follow  But you were in no fighting condition that time. Maybe. He was going in for the kill, ignoring slow movements and careful tactics. There are situations where you can still lure them in your traps. Yes, I have trapped a place in other side of the Aabahran, only to lure someone there. Get paranoid with your traps. Your only chance for a kill is IF antimagic strips the druid out of every spell. 

[Magick]

4 hours ago, mya said:

I also suspect corruption to be physical damage. But unsure ATM.

1 hour ago, hotspring monkey said:

Corruption is magical, confirmed by unnamed ogre.

Or you could look here.
https://wiki.theforsakenlands.com/Information/DamageAnalysis#NOUN

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry what were you crying about????  This pretty much shows me that if I get blackjacked.. I'm dead. 

-24 Saves

-35 Mental

The antimagic springs!
You feel less sick.
The Arms of Gaia no longer protect you.
You feel solid again.
The circle of protection around you fades.
The green aura around your body fades.
You slowly float to the ground.
Your skin feels soft again.
You no longer see invisible objects.

w

<1005hp 825m 431mv> 
in

Kalivar's backstab <<< ERADICATES >>> you!
That really did HURT!
Kalivar's second backstab *** OBLITERATES *** you!
Kalivar is in excellent condition. 

Athunasu: [===|===|---|---]
<446hp 825m 431mv> You are carrying:
     (Glowing) (Humming) a horrific key
     a barrel of milk
     (Glowing) a slab of starstone
     'Herighon' the Wrath of Balance
     a leather quiver
     (Glowing) Rod of Stars
     (Humming) a portable hole
     a small canoe
     a scroll titled 'Transient Decapitation'
     a shiny pin
     A coral-hafted trident
     (Glowing) a steel coif adorned with a muddy bauble
( 3) (Glowing) a dark red potion
Kalivar is in excellent condition. 

Athunasu: [===|===|---|---]
<446hp 825m 431mv> 
aura
You get a dark red potion from a portable hole.
Kalivar is in excellent condition. 

Athunasu: [===|===|---|---]
<446hp 825m 431mv> 
You can't smoke that.
Kalivar is in excellent condition. 

Athunasu: [===|===|---|---]
<446hp 825m 431mv> 

Kalivar's divine power MANGLES you!
You dodge Kalivar's attack.
You dodge Kalivar's attack.
You dodge Kalivar's attack.
Kalivar's corruption DISMEMBERS you!
You flee from combat!
A treant says 'Come back when you have no blood upon you Athunasu.'
You flee from combat!
Chestbuster springs!
Chestbuster's shrapnel === DISINTEGRATES === you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Smoldering Campsite
  The campsite smells like burned hair. Charred bones lie in the ashes of the
fire pit. The grass has been stamped down around the area.

[Exits: north east west]
     There is a fire pit here, still smoldering.
A green dragon flies in.
Kalivar throws his steel daggers and hits you with one of them.
Kalivar's blow wounds you gravely.
Kalivar's throw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You sure are BLEEDING!

aura
<2hp 825m 429mv> 
gg
You get a dark red potion from a portable hole.

<2hp 825m 429mv> You can't smoke that.

<2hp 825m 429mv> Kalivar flies in.
You invoke a druid gate, and vanish!
An Avalanche-Crushed Shrine
  Once a beautiful religious spot, now a steady upwards hill of shale 
rocks and splintered trees.  The rock slide has now become a bed of 
fir trees, which have been growing for decades by the look of it, 
providing shade over the old ruins of the shrine.  This shrine, by the 
look of it, is not one to the glory of the earth elementals, but 
rather the ruins sport different, foreign symbols.  It is reasonable 
to assume perhaps even the elements sometimes feud among themselves. 
Since the avalanche has covered the way up to the shrine mostly, and 
the cliffs of the edge of the Canyon itself are to the west, the only 
road out is the one the way you came.

[Exits: south]
     A skeleton wearing indigo robes is half-crushed by the avalanche.

<2hp 790m 429mv> 
cam
You attempt to camouflage yourself.

<

 

[Anonymous]

Quote

 

Smoldering Campsite
  The campsite smells like burned hair. Charred bones lie in the ashes of the
fire pit. The grass has been stamped down around the area.

[Exits: north east west]
     There is a fire pit here, still smoldering.
(Charmed) A massive green dragon is here.
{Wolf} Athunasu the Exalted Defender of Nature is here.
Athunasu closes her eyes momentarily.
Athunasu invokes a druid gate, and vanishes!

hp:982/982 mn340/539 mv515/516
They aren't here. <- That was a murder...

 

Druid gate is OP?  (kidding!!)

Two HP is painful.. That's really, really painful.

 

Kalivar

 

['tarako]

I really doubt this log is much more than a fluke tbh. Failing that save has to be a very low chance, and honestly if you fail that save it SHOULD be lights out. Like fighting belsoqse, if he lands a hypno you should die.  The second log shows one thing for sure, with absolutely perfect setup, everything undeniably in Kalivars favor with very good rng for the backstab, playing the most melee oriented thief you can play, with some of the best eq you could get, in the strongest subcabal for a melee, kalivar couldn't get the kill lol. Based on that, it seems like thieves are forced to play in a way that isn't good for keeping active players. He HAS to strip eq, which just makes people want to leave. This log, while close, just shows that even if everything is perfect, it's still lucky if they can get a kill. Even without druid gate you can just run away. 

[Anonymous]

No, you shouldn't be lights out if you miss that save. You should be crippled, you should be in big trouble and hope you can get your sanc up and be smart about it, but you shouldn't just be dead. The entire point of a thief doing this, is to get you so low that now their melee output can easily finish you off if your not smart about it. Sure, take 60% of my health, I'm fine with that, because then I can flee and have a small chance. But, if I take time to build up a character and make sure I cover my a** as much as possible so I can't just insta die, but then you almost insta die... I don't care what anyone says, that is extremely demoralizing. You might as well just give them ASSASSINATION without having to study. It's almost like you need your saves an obscene amount just so you don't insta die. 

 

['tarako]

So to be clear you are saying the thief suite should be used to enable them to easily kill you with melee. So he used every tool possible for this fight. Blackjack into unsanced dual wield backstab into chestbuster and autothrow. Literally everything went perfect, and he DID NOT LAND A KILL. You flipping out, and threatening to delete over a death you didn't take is crazy man. Just look at the log, laugh, say wow man that was close. Can't wait for more, instead of OMFG THIS IS BULLSHIT THIEVES OP THIS IS POINTLESS I'M GONNA DELETE. I played when mordred was death kiss, and pretty much never failed to cure poison on strangle. So my fights with a super decked E stalker STARTED with me being blind, and with no charmie, versus a super decked hasted feral. I get it, it's painful. It's uphill. It's not worth trashing the char on forum and threatening deletion if you died to it. You've failed how many saves versus antimagic?

[Ulmusdorn]

Everyone chill. 

Also post your name if you go anon or I’ll delete the posts. 

 

[Chief]

Anti magic traps dont have the best success rate but when they do land, this happens.

Anti magic has a low cool down and easily placed in choke necks like here outside his cabal. Sooner or later, you will fail the save.

Had Kalivar been using Silver Daggers, this Druid would effectively been one rounded. The Thief didn't lose a point of HP. Three commands, trap anti east, blackjack druid, backstab druid.

Druid was just fortunate that his enemy had the wrong daggers and he had a druid gate alias.

Almost!

[mya]

3 hours ago, Anonymous said:

'm sorry what were you crying about????  This pretty much shows me that if I get blackjacked.. I'm dead. 

Don't flee from that without sanctuary. And if possible recall from combat.

From the look of it you weren't blackjacket. Which isn't deadly, just makes you lose stuff to pry.

Now dispel + blackjack is deadly.

[Anonymous]

5 hours ago, mya said:

Don't flee from that without sanctuary. And if possible recall from combat.

From the look of it you weren't blackjacket. Which isn't deadly, just makes you lose stuff to pry.

Now dispel + blackjack is deadly.

I was blackjacked, just did a quick edit to upload and me spamming inventory a million times needed to go, looks like I cut the blackjack out. All in all it was a good catch on the thief. I was in shock for like 15 minutes after this because I literally was almost insta dead. I've definitely have calmed down lol and can't really get mad. However, if this becomes a pattern with all my protections this high, then I'll start to get concerned or roll a feral Ninja and just go thief stomping. 

Athunasu

 

[Anonymous]

7 hours ago, 'tarako said:

So to be clear you are saying the thief suite should be used to enable them to easily kill you with melee. So he used every tool possible for this fight. Blackjack into unsanced dual wield backstab into chestbuster and autothrow. Literally everything went perfect, and he DID NOT LAND A KILL. You flipping out, and threatening to delete over a death you didn't take is crazy man. Just look at the log, laugh, say wow man that was close. Can't wait for more, instead of OMFG THIS IS BULLSHIT THIEVES OP THIS IS POINTLESS I'M GONNA DELETE. I played when mordred was death kiss, and pretty much never failed to cure poison on strangle. So my fights with a super decked E stalker STARTED with me being blind, and with no charmie, versus a super decked hasted feral. I get it, it's painful. It's uphill. It's not worth trashing the char on forum and threatening deletion if you died to it. You've failed how many saves versus antimagic?

Nah your right man. I think I was just in shock. As I mentioned everything went perfect for the thief and it was a tough pill to swallow. To be 2hp from insta dead is a really scary and crazy feeling. I'm always super prepared and try to plan best I can to avoid any insta deaths but again sometimes things can happen. I went out there knowing the thief was there and thought I was prepared for some fun action only to sh*t my pants and barely make out there alive and almost get what felt like an assassination thief style. 

Athunasu