After playing several werebeasts I propose that natural weapons are a different class from h2h. I recently tried a werebeast zerk, and raged wearing a moderate suit of hit/dam I could not hit a mino warrior dual wielding axes. Throughout the fight I believe I hit him twice (the mino could feel free to verify that if they choose to.) This is completely due to the fact zerks do not get blind fighting and natural weapons are counted as h2h. Making natural weapons their own weapon class (perhaps similar to exotics?) you are alleviating this issue. Please feel free to comment constructively, please feel free to keep mindless near flame trolling to yourself ![]()
New weapon class: Natural
You're stupid and werebeasts suck. BOO-YAH!
I don't really understand what you mean by "neutral" weapons.
If you fight with your hands, then it's h2h.
shrug
I think he wants a transformed werebeast's attacks to have a unique weapon class so that they do not suffer from h2h drawbacks (lack of cabal weapons, WM stuff, low proficiency)
Aaah, that's a good different approach to the WM problems, but I think he was more concerned about the offense rates werebeasts gets.
It is actually a combination of both. There is never a situation where a raged zerk, wielding ANY weapons, should never hit a minotaur war dual wielding axes. There is 0 justification for such.
It also alleviates the problems that werebeasts suffer while transformed: Disarm rate is terrible I do not believe I ever disarmed a weapon transformed as kadrinath, You are able to USE certain glad skills which you currently cannot do, as well as the fact that no matter how you slice it biting someone (werewolf and werefalcon natural attack) is not punching someone, it is not even using your hands in the slightest.
Anyone else care to comment here? Having played a few werebeasts I feel that this would be more fitting of the race, as well as alleviating the major issues involved in playing a werebeast.
The day that necros get a reliable "pet summon" ability (circa 2001), is the day you can have your natural claws as weapons.
uhm.
Ca 'stone'
ca 'flesh'
ca summon crab
ca power crab
ca animate corpse
?
He means as a way to retrieve their pets quickly, not a way to make pets quickly.
And the crab's a terrible zombie by level 50 - won't hit a damned thing. ![]()
'Unless you give the crab natural weapons too... hmm. I think he's on to something. Though adding to the idea of natural weapons. What of, instead of a different category of weapons, why not just a bonus to h2h? While the werebeast is transformed, they get a +10 or something (idk how much the points would affect it) to h2h? Would that help alleviate the issue? Or perhaps add a race specific skill called Instinct or something that you could train and it just augments your h2h while transformed. I have no idea what different werebeasts do, so yeah.
Does this mean werebeasts would get a type of weapon known only to them, that other races do not (and can not) possess skill in?
I feel compelled to ask - won't take them to the other end of the scale ie able to beat on other races, like there is no tomorrow, due to zero weapon knowledge?
L-A
A werebeast ranger already can beat on any other race. Werebeast zerks get extremely stifled because of using hand to hand and no blind fighting. So no matter what you push hit/dam too (I had mine raged around 80/80) your only going to hit 1 MAYBE 2 times a round while your blind. God forbid your fighting someone with good ac, and good defenses.
I am not saying give it huge offensive value or anything, but look at the stats for H2H on the weapons chart you get terrible values for disarming, and
overall offense. Monks make up for it with kickboxing a/b, martial arts a/b. Werebeasts do not gain that advantage. Now factor in that a transformed beast (any class) is reduced to 1 defense, and if your a zerk your losing :Weapon cleave, shield cleave, offhand cleave, Shield block/the new fury skill/bloodhaze, as well as offensive output (from the crippling combo of being blind while using h2h). You gain? A "lack" of eq dependancy, which is negated by the fact your primary weapon choice is negated through class restrictions, so your primary bonuses (the perks you get for transforming) are null against basically every class that can blind you (which is everything except clerics, some psionics, invokers (even though they can blind you, it is not reliable), and some blademasters. Those are not good odds. Espescially sinc beasts can only choose 2 classes, and one "quest" class.
What it really comes down to is h2h is the least offensive, least defensive, and hardest to disarm with for non monk/illithids. I can understand this. The main issue is beasts got lumped into h2h as an oversight is my main concern.
Nope. Lay-Abotu just rendered all points irrelevant due to overpowering versus underpowering, leaving the issue right where it was. ![]()
Long Live L-A, King of the Harden Up! That almost sounds dirty...Foxx, does that sound dirty?
Yes yes, I approve.
I agree that werebeasts are a little gimped while transformed (at least in my experience). I typically would never transform at all unless I was going up against a mage.
Which brings me to one annoyance I've noticed. Why on earth would, if you are getting your *** kicked, want to transform thus losing all defensed but your werebear dodge? What justifies a critical life triggered transformation?
What it really comes down to is h2h is the least offensive, least defensive, and hardest to disarm with for non monk/illithids. I can understand this. The main issue is beasts got lumped into h2h as an oversight is my main concern.
I'm not attempting to say the idea is good, bad or indifferent. I'm simply trying to understand how the new weapon fits in to the current situation...
I'll save any thoughts, comments or opinions for a future post ![]()
L-A
Stickied for further consideration.
Wooohoo.
Lets hope this passes through and solves the many problems with classes that use their hands as weapons.
I agree something should be changed but I dunno what.
Werebeast zerks seem very unviable right now.