Mounted Charge incorporating Poleweap damage type

As it is, Paladins Mounted Charge does normal damage, and not the damage type of the weapon used.

Dark Knights Cleave on other hand, factors weapon damage type.

(Guess most of you never figured this one out.)

You can say, that Mounted Charge Lags, but Cleave Has a chance to put you to sleep. And you cannot spam both of them.

So the Idea is for Mounted charge to use the damage type of the weapon used.

Normal Charge remains the same.

Cleave can also be used by far more weapons. Like Sword,Axes and Polearms. Not sure on exotics.

I can say, that this is the only Paladin change you've ever suggested that I agree with.

I think this makes a lot of sense, as well as not being overpowered. Has drawbacks, too.

I'm all for it.

Dey

Despite my disbelief I think Dey is right in his statements.

I actually agree with Mya.

Scary when Mya has an idea that is widely accepted.

P.S.~ I agree also. Have thought about that one for a few years myself.

Sure, we can do this.

Right after....

Mounted Charge Lag on charging player = Cleave lag on the DK (like, I cleave, my opponents are gone before I can do anything else if it doesn't knock them out or even hit for the cleave damage---straight to regular combat as if I had opened with murder)

Cleave does more consistent damage vs. players as per mounted combat

AND

Cleave starts knocking people out more consistently OR it goes back to cleaving people in half if it won't knock them out.....the knock out lands so inconsistently that I think it should just go back to insta-kill at full health.

Hmm....well, firstly cleave != charge and DK != paladin so comparison of the two are not really to the point.

Changing damage gives a offensive increase to (smart) paladins. Not only is magic ac usually worse than physical, certain vulns on charge + 4 rounds lag + casts during this time open up. Not to mention that allowing this means the charge;flee thing comes to light as even without lag vuln weapon charging is a POWERFUL too when you can get it.

Why would a paladin NEED an increase in overall offensive? I know this is what I ask everytime we see a paladin suggestion - but the class already has accessd to a wide range of defensive spells and a good amount of offense. Personally, before we go upping anything on a paladin (or any class for that matter) there needs to be an obvious deficiency in what we are trying to change. I don't believe paladins have a disproporinate amount of offense for what they are.

L-A

I was about to agree before I saw L-A's post.

Well put, this is how you make someone change his mind.

Paladins really don't need anything else.

This will affect this:

Giants - As they will not partialy resist the damage type, if magical.

Feral - Fire Lance will hurt them a bit more. But Lance is a Disarmable Weapon.

Then again, Fury did not exist when the Paladin class was designed.

Ogres - Will take more damage from the charge.

Mobs - Will suffer more.

As a note Mounted Charge May Lag up to 4 rounds. Mostly only 2.

Just a few points - mounted charge doesn't lag the victim for 4 rounds, and whilst the 'charge' timer affects your foe, damage dealt is greatly reduced - nowhere on par with charge damage, so flee/charge constantly doesn't achieve much other than wasting time.

The way I see it is this - whilst the change allows Paladins to strike vulns more effectively, it also means they have to think about resistances. Some of the best weaponry Paladins have access to are mundane also - which would mix things up when facing giants, for example.

In summary, this is by no means a change I think paladins need but rather just one that will add another dimension to tactics.

Dey

Dey

Good points dey. But if paladins get vuln/resist charge, then why shouldn't other classes with charge get them as well? I dunno, but giving extra damage to lag spells is an increase in killability and do paladins really need that?

Don't forget the poor undeads against a certain cabal and avians as well, Mya.

I wasn't aware that regular charge didn't already factor in vulns/resists.

Dey

Dey: Mounted charge can (and does) lag for four rounds. I've been on the wrong side of this oh-so-many times. It's (in fact) so effective that you take the lag even when countered (this has been discussed before). I've previously had a paladin eat my counter damage so he can 'free' cast on me and run off after that going over and over. Very frustrating.

Mya: You have left Undead of your list of those who get shafted if this change were made. Considering if they get the 4 round lag they could eat a vuln charge (which will CANE, make no mistake) a flamestrike and wrath+holy word before they get a command off I think this is a rather important inclusion.

Ferals face the vuln charge (4 rounds) and double flame casts. Don't tell me it won't take a massive CHUNK out of their hp. It will.

Ogres look like they will cop it - again, charge and multiple vuln casts. If you're an evil ogre and lose sanc, vlun charge plus the UNSPEAK or <<>> from holy word+wrath could end your day VERY quickly.

As I've stated - I don't think paladins needs any offensive increase. They already have a HUGE amount of survivablity and more than moderate offensive. Upping them is going to tip the scales.

They do not need flail.

They do not need kick.

They do not need hellstream.

They do not need charge any more powered than it already is.

On the other side of the coin - if we up paladins charge should we also up the skill in general? Why should warriors and zerks be denied this? How do you all feel about mino's getting vuln damage on their charge?

L-A

L-A, clear out your PM box, b****.

Sorry if i never had a Wrath Polearm. But this is similar to a Dk Cleaving with a Water Polearm a Dwarf. It can happen, but only if the stars are in the right place.

Ogres ??? So what they have like 1500 HP's. He will probably roar the charge.

What if the Paladin loses his sanctuary and the Ogre bashes him ? Then Disarms his polearm

Ogres can lag 4 rounds to...

Another thing:

Regular Charge =/= Mounted Charge

It's not just damage, it's also lags more.

In my view there should no changes to common charge. Just Mounted, as it has a timmer to prevent repetition.

Just for paladins, right?

Let's make minotaurs paladins, too.

And give them flails.

And give clerics an extra boost on combat religion.

And let paladins/clerics dual wield any two flails...

And....

Or lets give minotaurs a Vulnerabilities.....

After all they have:

-Racial hometown.

-Giant Size

-Good phisical stats

-Can dual wield a 2h axe

-Charge that Lags 100% no matter class, through Protective shield

-Improved charge damage on Zerks

-Special 2 axes weapn/shieldcleave thing for Zerks

• 500 xp penalty

An Elf has:

• Less than 500 Base HP at 50. Better save some trains.

• Racial town

• Bad Physical stats

• Good Mental Stats

• • 200 mana than a Human

• Autosneak

• Charm Vulnerabilities

- Iron Vulnerabilities

• The hate of builders that make so many Iron things.

Perhaps we should give a Vuln to Minos, perhaps... something fun like....

Slashing Vuln....

Or Fear when blind. Something akin to the Dwarven -10% prof when in water.

The day i like Minotaurs, is the day I can play a Mino Cleric that can Lag Charge. Now that would be ...

Good points dey. But if paladins get vuln/resist charge' date=' then why shouldn't other classes with charge get them as well? I dunno, but giving extra damage to lag spells is an increase in killability and do paladins really need that?[/quote']

Other classes should not stictly because of Mounted Combat.

I disagree. I think it would be a neat change, but overall I think it would give paladins even more power. I am of the firm belief that the strongest base class is a paladin. I can think of nothing a patient paladin cannot kill.

elves have less than 500 hp base?

Bad phys stats? they have OK phys stats. Gnomes have bad phys stats.

Elf dex is a great advantage. Coupled with autosneak it can be used to great efffect if you play as an elf, not as a cookie cutter war.

Also elves have charm RESISTANCE, not vuln.

Also dualing axes is as much a pain as it is an advantage. Throwing away all your defense? The only thing that is less defensive is a whip. Its not always the best choice to dual axes. Situational at best.

I know.

A freaking Feral Ranger, that forces you to stack up Saves cause he shoots spells in form of arrows, and then Furys your dam face out.

A Blademaster that has your anatomy mastery and criticals your heart out and then rams his weapon deep in your chest, time after time, cause he can outdamage you.

Or a Fire Giant Warrior who just bashes you and stands there Laughing.

While you helplessly eat sack after sack.

At least this way, the Paladin can wield the Fire Lance, Holy Word Up, sneak up (someone) and surprise charge a Feral back to stone age, then Flamestrike him.

Or I can get a Avian DK, wield the Fire Lance and Cleave 500 Hp's of a unaware Feral and them Fireball him while he sleeps.