any other class i coulda at least escaped from and empowered on the run.
That is not true. Any class can laglock you if you are not prepared.
Necro's
Necromancers aren't meant to be all about the lag game' date=' after all, they aren't even melees. [/quote']
i take that as a you're wrong, they arent supposed to be about lagging.
That is not true. Any class can laglock you if you are not prepared.
no other class has 3 independant sources of lag. an enlarged giant warrior can try all he wants to lag you so you cant even flee, still not gonna get it off. 3 enlarged zombies lagging you while the necro waits to chase in case you do end up fleeing... yeah no other class can do that
Horse stance, sanctuary/protection, and a flight scroll would have helped you here.
an enlarged giant warrior can try all he wants to lag you so you cant even flee' date=' still not gonna get it off.[/quote']
Mate, that is just not true.
Had you simply been flying, you would have had two rounds to flee. Even if you had fled, you might have died from the spamming you did anyways.
Maybe necros aren't supposed to be all about lagging, but that isn't to mean they are can/should not be able to laglock a medium-sized race without flight and no bash protection. This almost exclusively applies to rogues, who have their own defenses against this...and monks/blms who don't prepare for a fight.
Then again, being bashed for more than 4 rounds (one bash from a charmie) always hurts when combined with the ability to take you from full to zero in that amount of time. This is NOT that case.
Many of us know from both sides that full laglocks aren't usually that much fun. Personally, I'd like to see lag replaced with something more interesting/creative.
Flight and sanc and maybe some stone skin and a few other consumables would have gone a hell of a long way. Sure you might still have died, but it would have given you more of a chance.
Don't empower anywhere near a well known extremely skilled and powerful person who wants to kill you. Monks can be very powerful when prepared for their opponent, if they aren't, gtfo. Run, run, run, run, realize you f'd up, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, hide, DONT REST YET! Make sure you are safe in your hidey spot for a few hours! THEN rest, prep and hunt. Time your stance to overlap your empowerment, etc, etc. Then go back and lag lock his arse.
Also, as much as it sucks, monks are one of those few classes that actually need to train. Skills are a MUST to survive but anats are what will get you kills. If you don't want to put in the hours to train a character than a monk/blademaster isn't for you. Both of those classes rely heavily on having high anats (yeah like 100) for all opponents. For some foes you might be able to skimpa little but not on someone like Kuriv.
If you're going to go offensive against a necro, you need to go to town on consumables. Flight, enlaarge, and all the usual suspects too to allow you to try and resist/avoid as much lag as possible allowing you to concentrate on the necro.
Necromancers are one of the few cases where I have found buddha stance to be very useful. Lag protection and magic protection rolled into one, and if they're illithid you still hit them for a decent amount of attacks and can whittle them down fast. Much harder to kill them, but hardly different to chasing down someone as a class that can't lag. Plus if you can get them to recall or flee without their zombies (and in most cases, you can outdamage a necro in buddha), you just kill them off, then empower offensive and then go for them.
Dey
i cant stay empowered all the time. i cant stay in a stance all the time.
also celerity, i didnt spam anything. i typed flee 4 times, how much lag is there to that, in all honesty? you can have 4 flees hit at once and still move before th next round, in most cases. i didnt lag myself with anything.
also, on consumables. cant use em when im laglocked. had i been prepared, the fight would have gone one of two ways:
defensively: avoid the trips and bashes still die from raw dmg output, blindness, etc etc. sanc, frenzy, none of thats gonna matter cause you dont have the damage to fight a necro. if you cant quickly drop a zombie or two, how can you expect to even match it?
offensively: bashes wouldnt have been so rough, but the tripping woulda made up for it. more dependancy on consumables. flight to avoid the bad trips, sanc, frenzy, that one calming herb. gyvels and reds for curing blindness. but can you really kill 3 zombies and a necro in a stance meant to fight melee classes?
its been said already, necros dont even have to do much in a fight. their zombies do it for them. throw a spell here or there and you're good. how can you say that isnt OP?
defensively: avoid the trips and bashes still die from raw dmg output' date=' blindness, etc etc. sanc, frenzy, none of thats gonna matter cause you dont have the damage to fight a necro. if you cant quickly drop a zombie or two, how can you expect to even match it?[/quote']
With skills mastered in a stance like horse or buddha with the proper consumables, zombie damage is negligable, and in buddha, the necros damage will be quite manageable as well.
offensively: bashes wouldnt have been so rough' date=' but the tripping woulda made up for it. more dependancy on consumables. flight to avoid the bad trips, sanc, frenzy, that one calming herb. gyvels and reds for curing blindness. but can you really kill 3 zombies and a necro in a stance meant to fight melee classes?[/quote']
Why are you killing zombies? KILL THE NECRO. Ignore the zombies, they are a distraction that can lag you, nothing more. In dragon, with HIGH ANATS you should be hitting for at least *** damage through his protections if not ===. He doesn't have that many hit points. Especialy if you disarm him in dragon, or go the chii bolt/air thrash/trip route he will be doing nothing but trying to get away from you.
I'll say it again, you are getting trashed by him for two reasons.
Not using enough consumables often enough. I know, I hate the consumable game too, its one of the main reasons I don't do as well as I could in PK around here. Against someone like him though, you have to or expect to do poorly.
You don't even have basic training done. Enough said.
Flight and sanc and maybe some stone skin and a few other consumables would have gone a hell of a long way. Sure you might still have died, but it would have given you more of a chance.
Don't empower anywhere near a well known extremely skilled and powerful person who wants to kill you. Monks can be very powerful when prepared for their opponent, if they aren't, gtfo. Run, run, run, run, realize you f'd up, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, fly, hide, DONT REST YET! Make sure you are safe in your hidey spot for a few hours! THEN rest, prep and hunt. Time your stance to overlap your empowerment, etc, etc. Then go back and lag lock his arse.
Also, as much as it sucks, monks are one of those few classes that actually need to train. Skills are a MUST to survive but anats are what will get you kills. If you don't want to put in the hours to train a character than a monk/blademaster isn't for you. Both of those classes rely heavily on having high anats (yeah like 100) for all opponents. For some foes you might be able to skimpa little but not on someone like Kuriv.
my anat for kurv is 100, i made sure i maxed it before i was in his PK range, 3 stances are maxed, attacks are maxed, balance is maxed, and most of my other skills are close to maxed. i wasnt empowering anywhere near him. i started empoering in xymerria and was 5 seconds away from the tick to empower. in fact, i do belive thats what the message saying i cant empower while fighting was signifying, that the tick hit but i had just been attacked. i was in fact in the process of running for relative safety (miruvhor area is not necessairly the safest place for a good monk, now is it? 
)
i know monks and blms depend on anats and masteries. i play both. i wont push to 50 unless ive got my biggest enemies' anats mastered, and potentials at least half, preferably at 75. i know the importance of such. the few points i may be off in some skills would not make or break that fight. even if i was enlarged sancd and armored, i would have been dead before i could flee.
i cant stay empowered all the time. i cant stay in a stance all the time.
also celerity, i didnt spam anything. i typed flee 4 times, how much lag is there to that, in all honesty? you can have 4 flees hit at once and still move before th next round, in most cases. i didnt lag myself with anything.
No, but you can choose to get the hell out when empowerment or stance is going to fall. Empowering doesn't lag, so you can empower on the run. Once your empowerment is at 18 hours or less, you can swap to the opposite empowerment - meaning you can then attack a weak mob to cancel it, and re-empower your original empowerment, to keep yourself with a decent amount of time on empowerment. Just keep aware of your surroundings. If you're caught not empowered because you weren't taking notice of your surroundings or your affects list, that's your own fault. Minute you see empowerment is going to drop, you get the hell out of there.
also, on consumables. cant use em when im laglocked.
You use them before hand. With detect invis up, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to see a necro coming if you're constantly 'whereing' and prepping accordingly.
had i been prepared, the fight would have gone one of two ways:
defensively: avoid the trips and bashes still die from raw dmg output, blindness, etc etc. sanc, frenzy, none of thats gonna matter cause you dont have the damage to fight a necro. if you cant quickly drop a zombie or two, how can you expect to even match it?
Unless you're in pretty poor EQ, I see no reason why you'd be getting massively outdamaged if you were in the right stance. Buddha stance will really make a necro work to land mals on you, and it heavily weakens their afflictive spells. You defend against the zombie damage well in defensive, and you CAN out damage a necromancer, consistently, in buddha. Next time I fight Kurvikhel, I'll log it, post it, and you'll see.
offensively: bashes wouldnt have been so rough, but the tripping woulda made up for it. more dependancy on consumables. flight to avoid the bad trips, sanc, frenzy, that one calming herb. gyvels and reds for curing blindness. but can you really kill 3 zombies and a necro in a stance meant to fight melee classes?
You shouldn't be looking at zombies, just the necro. If you choose to go offensive, do so if only you have the EQ and consumables to back it up. You need to preferably be in dragon, plus enlarge, plus flight, with frenzy, stone skin, bless, armor, shield and sanctuary to keep yourself as safe as possible and maximise your own damage output. Blinding will stop him using zombies to rescue, but you could try your luck opening with chii bolt and trying for the straight lag lock, even if a zombie bash interrupts you, you can do a lot of damage because of their weak defenses. Going offensive is much riskier VS a necro, and there's a lot of luck involved.
its been said already, necros dont even have to do much in a fight. their zombies do it for them. throw a spell here or there and you're good. how can you say that isnt OP?
That's just not the case for a monk. Your main problem isn't with what necromancers can do, but with what you yourself, aren't doing. Just keep an eye on that where, and whenever you're just hanging around not fighting, always stay in the defensive with mantis up, in buddha - that way, you'll be hard pressed to be taken by surprise by melee-laggers, rogues and mages. If you get caught without empowerment or stance, that's your fault.
Dey
i wasnt empowering anywhere near him. i started empoering in xymerria and was 5 seconds away from the tick to empower. in fact, i do belive thats what the message saying i cant empower while fighting was signifying, that the tick hit but i had just been attacked. i was in fact in the process of running for relative safety (miruvhor area is not necessairly the safest place for a good monk, now is it?
You should have been running away to allow empowerment to come into play. Again, not trying to sound like I'm being a **** or anything (because everyone knows I suck) but that's your fault for not being empowered, not anything to do with the necro.
even if i was enlarged sancd and armored, i would have been dead before i could flee.
Yes, because you weren't in sanctuary, or empowered. If you were empowered defensively, with those preparations, you would be able to flee.
Dey
To what Dey said, I will add only one more -
If you were a bit more familiar with the Syndi skills/perks you will know that Xymerria is a very bad place to rest while not prepared. Just as a few more other areas.
[edit] And to back up what we are saying, here is a PK log for you -
Definitely. You need to be 16.24x as paranoid VS a syndi, and REALLY keep an eye on that where and empowerment.
Dey
With skills mastered in a stance like horse or buddha with the proper consumables, zombie damage is negligable, and in buddha, the necros damage will be quite manageable as well.
Why are you killing zombies? KILL THE NECRO. Ignore the zombies, they are a distraction that can lag you, nothing more. In dragon, with HIGH ANATS you should be hitting for at least *** damage through his protections if not ===. He doesn't have that many hit points. Especialy if you disarm him in dragon, or go the chii bolt/air thrash/trip route he will be doing nothing but trying to get away from you.
I'll say it again, you are getting trashed by him for two reasons.
Not using enough consumables often enough. I know, I hate the consumable game too, its one of the main reasons I don't do as well as I could in PK around here. Against someone like him though, you have to or expect to do poorly.
You don't even have basic training done. Enough said.
they're still 4 of them (3 and the necro). im not gonna evade dmg. horse stance =/= deathweaver. even mastered, you dont turn attacks as often as i think you should.
in dragon with lvl 2 chii bolt with the appropriate buffs, i can (could, lost my gear) do unspeakable things thru sanc. also, cant disarm a ilithid... they dont use weapons. the problem with bolt/thrash/trip is that each of those lags me as well, and it only takes one zombie bash to hit at any time in that chain to give him the chance to run.
im supposed to do consumables while simultaneously running to empower/stance? cant do both at once.
again, mastered anat in his race, masteries/near masteries in applicable abilities, and stances, outside of bhudda and air thrash. the training isnt the issue. its the "haha you cant input commands"
also, im not killing zombies. thats stupid. the point is to go for the necro. but when the necro blinds you and runs, and the zombie bashes you while you quaff a gyvel, you're pretty much stuck fighting the zombies til you can either find the necro or get away.
You should have been running away to allow empowerment to come into play. Again, not trying to sound like I'm being a **** or anything (because everyone knows I suck) but that's your fault for not being empowered, not anything to do with the necro.
Yes, because you weren't in sanctuary, or empowered. If you were empowered defensively, with those preparations, you would be able to flee.
Dey
i wasnt empowering in xym. i started there... immediately kept moving to try to avoid getting caught off guard, though it didnt work.
the point is, if you cant even do so much as get away because you get lagged for so many more rounds than it takes to kill you.. when fighting a caster..
even with buffs, what could i do? there are too many ways for the necro to not fight you. and he doesnt have to with the zombie bug. its admittedly a bug, so dont try to say its not and the class is perfectly fine.
they're still 4 of them (3 and the necro). im not gonna evade dmg. horse stance =/= deathweaver. even mastered' date=' you dont turn attacks as often as i think you should. [/quote']
IF you're going to go defensive VS a necromancer... why horse stance? You're be reflecting zombie damage back at the damage, and the negligable necromancer damage back to the necro. Much better to go buddha for the spell resistance, which throws a spanner in the works for a substantial portion of a necromancer's arsenal.
in dragon with lvl 2 chii bolt with the appropriate buffs, i can (could, lost my gear) do unspeakable things thru sanc. also, cant disarm a ilithid... they dont use weapons. the problem with bolt/thrash/trip is that each of those lags me as well, and it only takes one zombie bash to hit at any time in that chain to give him the chance to run.
Don't even need to disarm, necromancer (illithid necro, anyway) have disgustingly poor defences. If you don't feel comfortable in offensive against a necro... just go defensive.
im supposed to do consumables while simultaneously running to empower/stance? cant do both at once.
Err... you hit 'empower def' (I have an alias - 'def' = 'empower defense' and 'off' = 'empower offense' for speed) then start running, eat your first pill, keep running, eat your second, keep running, smoke your herb, keep running... get prepped up that way whilst on the run, then once you're prepped and empowerment has finished, just drop into your stance and you're ready to go. Prepping on the run is not that hard.
again, mastered anat in his race, masteries/near masteries in applicable abilities, and stances, outside of bhudda and air thrash. the training isnt the issue. its the "haha you cant input commands"
Which... is negated, if you go defensive.
also, im not killing zombies. thats stupid. the point is to go for the necro. but when the necro blinds you and runs, and the zombie bashes you while you quaff a gyvel, you're pretty much stuck fighting the zombies til you can either find the necro or get away.
Or... you go defensive, buddha, and the necro struggles to blind, and you don't get lagged.
Are you starting to see a trend here in people's replies? 
Dey
i wasnt empowering in xym. i started there... immediately kept moving to try to avoid getting caught off guard, though it didnt work.
the point is, if you cant even do so much as get away because you get lagged for so many more rounds than it takes to kill you.. when fighting a caster..
even with buffs, what could i do? there are too many ways for the necro to not fight you. and he doesnt have to with the zombie bug. its admittedly a bug, so dont try to say its not and the class is perfectly fine.
If you're being caught whilst you're running, then the problem is you're not running fast enough, or you suffer from some sort of latency problem. Both of those are not anything to do with a necromancer being OP. If that exact same player was playing a bard, cleric, DK, warrior, zerk or anything, what makes you think they wouldn't be chasing you at the same speed and catching you whilst you try to empower? :confused: At the very least, you could recall.
It's already been stated, you were caught WITH YOUR PANTS DOWN. With a monk, there is no reason why you shouldn't be in an empowerment for nearly 100% of the time, outside of combat.
This isn't intended as a ****wave because again, I'm not a good PKer. However, I have -never- been caught not empowered, because I keep a track of my surroundings and my empowerment, and try not to let my empowerment drop below 10 hours if I'm in downtime. I've been found meditating by the same necro, without sanctuary, but because I am in defensive/buddha ALL THE TIME I'm not expecting a fight I was able to flee immediately, rest, prep up, return, and give him a good run for his money.
Dey
If you were empowered defensively, with those preparations, you would be able to flee.
Dey
flee for how long? one flee? necros dont even needa stay in the room. he can simply wait for me, blind me and kill me while either i run blind and therefore am at a huge disadvantage since i cant see where im going. back myself into a room i cant get out of or something like that, or, i quaff a gyvel and lose my escape, rinse and repeat the whole scenario. defensive or not, bhudda or not, when the necro can keep you constantly in combat simply cause he doesnt need to stay in the room, you arent gonna win. you arent gonna get away.