I think this could use som revamping. its a painstakingly long process. what purpose does it server other than annoy people and deter the creation of new characters?
Roll system
Get an autoroller.
I'm actually inclined to agree with MCD, for just that reason.
Why have the process at all if it can be so easily circumvented?
I realize that this is a "If it's not broke, don't fix it" kind of situation, but perhaps this would be beneficial to collecting new players.
Let's all start out with maxed out stats. 
I don't see new players coming here just it we change the roll system Bali.
The rolling triggers are quite common and you can use the time you wait for the roll you want to write a description.
I don't see new players coming here just it we change the roll system Bali.
The rolling triggers are quite common and you can use the time you wait for the roll you want to write a description.
HAHAHAHA brilliance.
What is so funny?
new players come? no. but its rather annoying to make a character here. there are times when ive rolled over 20 sub45 rolls in a row. no joke, i counted. for a first time player, that can be quite disheartening.
i was thinking about maybe a system that gave you random scores (instead of accross the board 8's) and a few points in order to shape that roll. teh first MUD i played used that system, and it was much faster
I don't see new players coming here just it we change the roll system Bali.
The rolling triggers are quite common and you can use the time you wait for the roll you want to write a description.
I was not implying that new players would start moving in en masse simply because we move this particularly annoying facet of character creation. I was suggesting that new players who find this MUD would be less inclined to leave if they didn't have to spend forever rolling, especially if they've already visited the forums and discovered the value of rolling.
I'll be more clear next time.
To be honest, the last thing new players need to worry about is their roll.
And I personally hate the system which MadCow described because of its inflexability.
Although, I agree with Bali as well, the rolling is and will be tidious if you are new no matter how you change it. Perhaps we should just start with the max roll possible for each race/class combo.
I remember when we had three chances to get decent random rolls...I wanted to scream about 95% of the time. The current method is perfectly fine. Make a snack, check your email, watch some TV, jam out, write a description...do anything until you hear the DING of the roller hitting your desired target. Is it hard to wait a little while...not even at your keyboard if you don't wish to be, to get the roll you want? There are much bigger things for the IMMs to deal with than a rolling system that already works if you are patient.
I think the current system is newbie unfriendly. Sure the current system is fine if you have an autoroller and you know what the max stats are, but a newbie does not always have that (they don't all visit the forums). As someone mentioned, it could be very disheartening to roll up a character, spend 100 hours on him and then find out that your stats suck. Its already hard enough for newbies.
Agreed. I remember my first 50 Wintera, made after learning the game with a few teen lowbies had intelligence of 12, cos my initial roll sucked. The thing is, its not something others can easily see and correct since you can't see someone's score, also its hard to ask ingame about this without breaking rp. Newbies don't need extra penalties.
first it was full looting scares away newbies. then it was getting attacked pre-50 scares away newbies. now rolling scares away newbies.
next up, having to get equipment and level up your character scares away newbies.
The purpose of rolling is to make an investment in your character. Your first character should not be perfect. Your first char should have less than perfect stats, should die a ton and probably without getting a single kill in return, should take mobdeaths up the wazoo.
FL is a painful place. Newbies who don't like that, who aren't willing to learn through it, won't get anything out of the game.
see thats the mentallity that tends to drive people away.
you will have crap stats. you will get demolished. if you dont like losing fights, you don't belong.
if that was what i heard when the game was described to me, like hell i'd have started playing. We're trying to expand the playerbase, right? So why tack on more to the already enormous disadvantage new players face? Put up and shut up style attitudes aren't gonna help.
When I start out teaching someone to play chess, I am very up front with the fact that they will lose a LOT of games before they ever win one.
In FL, you're going to lose a LOT of fights before you win one. This is simply the way it is. Should I not be honest about it?
As for the rolling... an idea Celerity brought up while I was speaking with her is to integrate an autoroller program into the rolling system. As it is most people use rollers anyways, so this wouldn't really change anything, and newbs wouldn't be forced to do the very outside the game act of writing up a roller. Practical result is that it'd do nothing to counter the idea of investing time in your char through rolling, except make it somewhat less of a hill to climb for newbs.
I'm actually with Pali on this one. For the most part, I've always expressed valuing "classy play" but in addition to that, I've let each of the newbies that ask me questions know that they aren't in for a pampering here. This place, this game takes a certain taste, and I don't tell those that don't like it, to leave. I just tell them what the reality of FL is. I took years to not suck terribly at every aspect of this game. Does that mean I was investing my time to become good because I hated playing, when I sucked? No, I enjoyed every step of the way. I remember my legacy, Skax Flax and my first cabal. My first cabal war, I remember playing with Montahg's shaman and guess who was my main oppressor? Triathix. Yes. Then Tassin's fire warrior, and a few others. Valadis. These are the people I learned from, died to, got full looted by and whatnot. It burned, nauseated, and saddened me. But when I get messages from Zebb like "You seem to suck a little bit less today, good job." It really sinks in. 
It's a learning experience that lasts for a ridiculous amount of time, and the best part? Once you actually get good at something, you can just roll another class and you suck again! Always something new to learn.
If we incorperate an autoroller into the process.. whats the point of the process?
stats arent going to change the fact that new people will lose. a lot. thats just common sense. all it would do is lessen the learning curve. to use your chess analogy, its like playing chess with someone who doesn't know how to move a knight.
Would you rather have new/rebalanced in game things or an autoroller? Answer that then consider what you do or do not suggest.