Integrated Paths (Berserker) 2.0

If you remember my tiered skills system proposal from a bit ago, then this will look familiar. The original proposal is here: http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=15188

Previously, this proposal had a lot of positive responses. However, it seemed to fizzle into obscurity and was forgotten. So, I've decided to clean it up, answer a few more questions, and repropose it with high hopes for a lot more responses, serious consideration, and insightful comments either way.

Please do not derail this thread. It represents a lot of work on my part and I want it to be taken seriously. Again, please do not derail this thread to be funny.

The situation now:

We have three standard classes with choosable paths (ranger, warrior, and berserker). A path is a selection that predetermines the availability of future skills. Anger-->Skull crusher and Staff Mastery-->Backcutter, for example.

We have six classes with selectable skills (thief, blademaster, warrior, berserker, ranger, and ninja). A selectable skill is a skill that can be chosen at a certain level that does NOT predetermine the availability of future skills. Weapon expertises, ninjitsu, blademaster stances, and traps are all examples of this.

The problems:

First, not all classes are customizable. Why does a ranger have more options available than an invoker?

Classes and races were designed independently. The class serves as the core of the character, with the race acting as a modifying layer. They have not been designed to work together.

Race is not well developed in most classes. Human, werebeast, and ogre berserkers all swing their weapons the same, bodyslam the same, headbutt the same, and use shields the same. Race is generally only used for alignment, stat, and cosmetic reasons (with a few exceptions). This creates a system where there are some obviously superior race picks for each class. While an elf ranger is an interesting pick in many other systems, in the FL world it is inferior in almost every way to other ranger choices (stat, alignment, and skill bonuses). In short, classes and races were never well-integrated together.

Lack of a real connection between RP and PK. If I want to RP a crazy, axe-slinging dwarf, I must make a dwarf berserker and emote my 'RP'. My swinging or axe skills are not represented in the code at all and I function just like every other berserker. This same problem lies in restrings for races. The real problem in this is actually PK balance.

Inflexibility. It is extremely difficult to introduce a new class (or even a race) without imbalancing all of the others. This makes change on FL very slow and difficult.

Another problem lies in replayability. In most cases, classes operate exactly the same way every time I play them. If I play two faerie invokers, or even a faerie invoker and then an elf invoker, I will not have a significantly different gameplay experience (barring RP experiences). Replayability in FL is mostly limited to playing different classes, align differences, and cabal selections. Again, race and class are not adequately customizable to generate a new character using the same base.

The problem of predictability arises in PK situations. I know how a berserker will operate, therefore I can predict nearly any possible tactical action they might take. If I see a berserker, I immediately know all of her strengths and weaknesses. This is because all berserkers are built from three only paths, which affect only two skills each (rage and the rage focus skill). Consistency in the class is a very good thing. However, as it stands now, it is to the point of sameness.

Skill balance. We have some very useful skills and spells (critical strike and path of deceit) and some skills and spells that are generally considered a waste (detect good, kick, ikuzachi). I believe that every skill/spell can be made useful in some way.

Inter-class skill balance. A thief, warrior, and necromancer all parry with the same amount of skill. An invoker is just as proficient with a staff as a ninja is.

Equipment balance. Those who are well-equipped enjoy a massive (usually decisive) advantage over those who are not. The problem lies in balancing the equipment to all the classes. The goal is to make equipment useful and worthwhile without overshadowing player skill.

The solution:

Very shortly: to integrate the path and selectable skill systems and then apply it to all skills/spells.

How does will this work? First we need to change all the skills/spells into paths. For example let's take the dodge skill:

dodge

Next we break it into three or four tiers (the path). As my skill in dodge increases (due to race/class/selectable choices) I will progress along this basic path:

[B]basic dodge[/B]
--advanced dodge
--expert dodge
--master dodge

Then we give each tier, except the first (which is the basic skill as it is now), a stackable, cumulative bonus:

[B]basic dodge[/B]
--advanced dodge (+10 lag avoidance)
--expert dodge (50% chance to dodge thrown objects (cards/shurikens/etc))
--master dodge (25% to avoid all opening strikes)

Next, we need to incorporate the selection half:

First, we have a list of automatic selections based on your class. For example, all berserkers heal quickly. Therefore, a berserker doesn't need to spend a selection to upgrade her fast healing to regeneration---it is free, given as a perk. The number of selections will vary depending on the class. In my example, the berserker gets 13 free perks (automatically given as she ranks up).

[B]Zerk base (13):[/B] 
+1 axe/mace/flail/polearm/spear/sword/hand to hand/two handed/shield block/fast healing/enhanced damage
+2 attack

Next, we have racial perks. These are automatic selections that depend solely on your race. Each race will have three of these automatic 'selections' for each class, called racial perks. A storm giant berserker and warrior will get different racial perks. This is ensures that all choices are useful and do not overlap (a warrior getting a wasted bonus to bodyslam for example).

Storm giant berserker - warcry, enhanced damage, and bodyslam.
Storm giant warrior - charge, enhanced damage, and bash.

'Weaker' racial selections can be given bonuses to staple/useful skills to make their race more worthwhile. This is a very useful tool for easily balancing race/class combinations and for giving each race a different feel. For example:

[B]Berserker race perks (3):[/B]
human +1 trip/relax/parry
storm +1 warcry/enhanced damage/bodyslam
stone +1 swing/enhanced damage/bodyslam
fire +1 mace/enhanced damage/bodyslam
werebeast +1 haymaker/dirt kick/dual wield
ogre +1 roar/fast healing/weapon cleave
dwarf +1 shield cleave/berserk/shield block
duergar +1 double grip/headbutt/two handed
minotaur +1 charge/rage/axe

Next, the existing class path system can be converted into selectable options, thus preserving the old system:

[B]Rage focus (one selection possible):[/B]
anger +1 haymaker
fury +1 two handed
devastation +1 enhanced damage

Expertises simply translate as a +1 bonus to their respective weapon.

With the class and racial perks defined, we can now go into the true selectable skills. The player will be able to select a total of five selections to upgrade. She may choose to upgrade five different skills or to upgrade one or two skills fully. This is the true customizability of this idea. One choice is given every ten levels.

Five skills gives the player enough room to 'flesh out' a character design, without being too many as to make balance a nightmare. Moreover it is not enough to break from the base 'feel' of the class. With three predetermined racial perks and five selectable perks, a berserker will still play and have the same basic style as a berserker does now, only with a lot more customizable flair. It opens up the tactical and strategic options without completely revamping the balance.

Balance:

Now that we have the paths and selectables integrated and combined with races, we must balance it. To do this, we first put a cap on skills based on their class.

A warrior can upgrade her weapons to master but an invoker may not be able to reach even the advanced level. A dark-knight or other hybrid will be capped in middle ranges for a large number of skills. This will rebalance our current system a bit.

For example, it will give the potential to berserkers (dedicated melees) to be better at melee (can raise melee skills higher) than rangers (melee/rogue hybrid), assuming that the berserker actually chooses to develop those skills.

Again, it depends on how the build goes. A ranger may be better at melee if she spends all of her selections solely on melee and the berserker spends her selections on things like headbutt...this is the beauty of the system. In the end though, the berserker has the class build advantage.

This system will never give a skill to a class that the class does not already have.

The benefits:

Classes are customizable. I can flesh out my character concept within the constrains of a class. I have the same skillset as my base class, with different focuses within that skillset. This addresses the two problems described earlier, replayability and predictability.

No new skills. This system doesn't require the coding or design of any new skills. It uses what is already available. That would make it easy to code, easy to understand, and vastly raises the quality of our existing system (instead of just dumping new features/skills). Moreover, no skills are used from other classes. A warrior will never learn how to rage and a berserker will never be able to upgrade to the 'master' level to obtain warrior lores. Finally, it does not change our leveling system at all.

Easy to implement. Most of the work is in the design phase. Because it uses no new code and the already available skill selection feature, the coding required to do this would be very light compared to other changes of this magnitude. This would be much easier to code for all classes than a code new class. It could even be implemented to existing characters, since it doesn't add or remove any skills.

Skill Balance. Like mentioned above, there are many skills/spells that are not very useful in the game. This system makes that very easy to change and develop.

For example, let's look at detect good. A fairly worthless spell as it stands now. Let's see what we can develop it into:

basic detect good/evil
advanced detect good/evil - can sense when a good/evil char enters and leaves a room
master detect good/evil - can see hidden/invisible/camoed characters in the same room but not on where

Now it has a specialized use. Some people might actually find that very useful, giving meaning to a worthless spell.

Nearly limitless PK/RP options. In this system, if I want to make that crazy dwarf who jumps in swinging like a maniac with his axes, I can do that. My character concept will be reflected in the code and play style of my berserker, not just in the random emotes I fling around. He really will be good with axes, dual wield, berserk, and will swing at all enemies. I can actually flesh out my concept instead of just pretending he is like that. This is getting into the code-backed RP advanced ideas I had earlier, with meaningful PK balance being addressed too. A very win-win change, for both RP and PK. I no longer am fighting the same berserker with just a different name. There is more thought for tactics in the game and the game is able to accommodate more kinds of playing styles along with massively increased RP possibilities. The system has the same effect as designing a full range (hundreds) of sub-paths for each class. This makes it very efficient.

PK balance. Classes, races, and class/race combinations become much easier to fine tune. Instead of completely reworking a skill, I can make smaller, subtle modifications at each tier. Instead of a change that balances a strong race and gimps a weaker race, I can focus that change to only that single race. I can easily rework the balance of a race/class combination independently. (ex. I can strengthen elf rangers without strengthening elf invokers/ninja). PK balance would be vastly simplified.

Equipment balance. This system has the potential to 'fix' our equipment problems. It does this in two ways. First, the tendency to specialize would also cause specialization in equipment (to either promote that specialization or to cover a weakness due to it). That means people will seek out different rares. Secondly, melees and casters alike would gain much of their power from their skill choices, not their equipment. Very high-end equipment becomes less valuable and easy to tone to accommodate the increased power of skills. On the other end, a melee in weak equipment still has some skill options available to fall back on, even when facing 'god suits'. However, it does not make equipment worthless or a non-concern by any means. Bonuses do stack and still make a large difference.

Uniqueness. As far as I know, no other game (MUD) uses this kind of system. This is an original idea tailored to FL. I didn't copy this from any other game (although it may very well exist). This would be a huge draw to new players as a wonderful advertising point. Increased options in PK tactics and RP development (my RP is finally real) retains player. This would be something that really separates us from other MUDs in our class.

Details:

Now that I've told you of the benefits, let's see this system in action.

The following class example may or may not be well balanced. The details of the benefits of each tier need to be considered against future designs of other the skills of all other classes and subsequently rebalanced.

Please don't worry about the class balance at this point. Please consider the system as a whole, not whether or not the particulars are balanced at this point.

For example, an extremely defensive dwarf berserker build (who spent his five choices in defenses) might end up as follows:

[B][U]Advanced skills:[/U][/B]
axe
mace
flail
polearm
spear
sword
hand to hand
two handed
fast healing
enhanced damage
haymaker
shield cleave
berserk
[B][U]Expert Skills:[/U][/B]
attack
[B][U]Master skills:[/U][/B]
parry (4 selectables)
shield block (race + class + 1 selectable)

But what does master level parry do exactly? Here is a list of some possible bonuses for each tier. Please remember that they do stack:

[B][U]*Detailed example selectable choices for berserker skills *These are the full tiers, a berserker cannot gain warrior lores or mediation for example:[/U][/B]
[B]basic axe[/B]
--advanced axe (+2 avg damage)
--expert axe (+50% damage on first successful normal strike)
--master axe (halves target's ac for hit/dam calculation)
[B]basic dagger[/B]
--advanced dagger (add wound flag to weapon)
--expert dagger (dual parry bonus)
--master dagger (doublesheath/+3% dual parry)
[B]basic flail[/B]
--advanced flail (+3 hitroll/+5 damroll)
--expert flail (+1% second/third/fourth attack)
--master flail (mantis maul)
[B]basic mace[/B]
--advanced mace (+8 damroll)
--expert mace (+2 avg damage/+3 damroll)
--master mace (focused bash)
[B]basic polearm[/B]
--advanced polearm (+1% two handed/+1% parry)
--expert polearm (+20% charge round damage)
--master polearm (+1% two handed/+1% parry/+1% polearm)
[B]basic spear[/B]
--advanced spear (-40 AC/+3 hitroll/+2 damroll)
--expert spear (add sharp flag to weapon)
--master spear (backcutter)
[B]basic sword[/B]
--advanced sword (+3 hitroll/+3 damroll/-30 AC)
--expert sword (add sharp flag to weapon)
--master sword (feign)
[B]basic staff[/B]
--advanced staff (+1% staff)
--expert staff (-40 AC/+1% staff)
--master staff (+2%staff)
[B]basic hand to hand[/B]
--advanced hand to hand (chance of a lagging strike/+1 avg damage)
--expert hand to hand (allows parry/dual parry with hand to hand/+2 avg damage)
--master hand to hand (allows pugil with hand to hand/+3 avg damage)
[B]basic exotic[/B]
--advanced exotic (+5% disarm/offhand disarm/shield disarm/+2 hitroll)
--expert exotic (+2 hitroll/+1 avg damage/+2 luck/-25 AC)
--master exotic (weapon seize)
[B]basic two handed[/B]
--advanced two handed (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll)
--expert two handed (swing with two-handed weapons (if already swinging, +1 attack))
--master two handed (+3% two handed/+1 avg dam)
[B]basic shield block[/B]
--advanced shield block (can block arrows)
--expert shield block (shield block causes riposte damage)
--master shield block (auto shield bash)
[B]basic parry[/B]
--advanced parry (+2% parry)
--expert parry (+3% parry)
--master parry (parry causes riposte damage)
[B]basic dodge[/B]
--advanced dodge (+10 lag avoidance)
--expert dodge (50% chance to dodge thrown objects (cards/shurikens/etc))
--master dodge (25% to avoid all opening strikes)
[B]basic rage[/B]
--advanced rage (+25% rage hp bonus)
--master rage (dodge restored by 50%)
[B]basic enhanced damage[/B]
--advanced enhanced damage (+5 damroll)
--expert enhanced damage (+2 avg damage)
--master enhanced damage (+2 avg damage/+5 damroll)
[B]basic fast healing[/B]
--advanced fast healing (regeneration)
--master fast healing (halves duration of poison/plague/enfeeblement)
[B]basic meditation[/B]
--advanced meditation (trance)
--master meditation (resist charm spells)
[B]basic attack[/B]
--advanced attack (second attack)
--expert attack (third attack)
--master attack (fourth attack)
[B]basic dual wield[/B]
--advanced dual wield (may choose to strike with only primary or offhand)
--master dual wield (may dual wield objects of same weight)
[B]basic charge[/B]
--advanced charge (may charge and attack (like minotaurs))
--master charge (may charge in combat to push an enemy into another room)
[B]basic trip[/B]
--advanced trip (trip causes moderate damage)
--master trip (+1 enemy size when calculating lag duration)
[B]basic bodyslam[/B]
--advanced bodyslam (bodyslam may cause the thunderclap effect)
--master bodyslam (+3% bodyslam)
[B]basic berserk[/B]
--advanced berserk (no ac/moves penalty)
--master berserk (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll/+100 hp)
[B]basic warcry[/B]
--advanced warcry (+5 hitroll/-5 svs. vs. spell)
--master warcry (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll/warcry affects groupmembers)
[B]basic lore[/B]
--advanced lore (can see extra flags (hitroll/damroll/etc))
--master lore (as identify spell)
[B]basic weapon cleave[/B]
--advanced weapon cleave (may cleave offhand weapons)
--master weapon cleave (adds burnproof flag to weapon)
[B]basic shield cleave[/B]
--advanced shield cleave (causes major damage on success)
--expert shield cleave (negates burnproof shieldblock for one tick) 
[B]basic relax[/B]
--advanced relax (may relax from path of fury)
--master relax (may relax from path of devastation)
[B]basic double grip[/B]
--advanced double grip (+3% two handed)
--master double grip (powergrip)
[B]basic haymaker[/B]
--advanced haymaker (skull crusher)
--master haymaker (haymaker causes thunderclap/+25% protective shield penetration chance)
[B]basic headbutt[/B]
--advanced headbutt (causes thunderclap effect)
--master headbutt (ignores protective shield)
[B]basic haggle[/B]
--advanced haggle (haggles twice and takes the best result)
--master haggle (ignore bank/locker fees)
[B]basic swing[/B]
--advanced swing (can swing out of rage)
--master swing (all attacks swing (bash/haymaker/charge/etc)*(can enable/disable at will))

We can display this on our skill sheets as follows, with the berserker skills added in:

[B][U]Example skill sheet for a berserker:[/U][/B]
Level 1: basic axe n/a basic dagger n/a 
 basic flail n/a basic mace n/a 
 basic polearm n/a basic shield block n/a 
 basic spear n/a basic sword n/a 
 basic enhanced damage n/a basic hand to hand n/a 
 recall n/a basic staff n/a 
 basic two handed n/a 
Level 5: basic parry n/a 
Level 6: basic fast healing n/a basic rage n/a 
Level 7: [B]advanced attack n/a[/B] 
Level 8: basic dirt kicking n/a 
Level 10: basic relax n/a basic swing n/a advanced axe n/a [B] [selectable] [ n/a] [/B]
Level 12: [B]advanced flail n/a[/B]
Level 13: basic charge n/a 
Level 14: [B]advanced polearm n/a[/B]
Level 15: basic trip n/a basic bodyslam n/a [B][race perk] [ n/a] 
Level 16: basic berserk n/a basic haggle n/a [B]advanced mace n/a [/B] 
Level 17: basic dual wield n/a basic roar n/a 
Level 18: basic meditation n/a [B]advanced spear n/a[/B]
Level 19: [B]expert attack n/a[/B] 
Level 20: basic warcry n/a [B]advanced sword n/a [/B] [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]
Level 21: basic dodge n/a 
Level 22: basic weapon cleave n/a [B]advanced hand to hand n/a [/B] 
Level 23: basic shield cleave n/a 
Level 24: [B]advanced enhanced damage n/a[/B]
Level 25: basic lore n/a 
Level 26: [B]advanced shield block n/a[/B]
Level 27: advanced fast healing n/a 
Level 30: [B] [selectable] [ n/a] [/B] [B][race perk] [ n/a]
[/B]Level 33: basic headbutt n/a 
Level 36: basic haymaker n/a 
Level 38: basic double grip n/a 
Level 40: [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]
Level 45: [B][race perk] [ n/a] [/B]
Level 46: rage focus [ n/a]
Level 50: [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]

Please do not derail this thread.

looks very complicated, but i like the concept. i can tell you did a lot of work here.

looks very complicated' date=' but i like the concept. [/quote']

Please tell me more. What do you like? What is difficult to understand? If you have a question, others likely do too.

If you like or dislike this system, please elaborate. What are the good or bad points?

can tell you did a lot of work here.

YES! I did...

I like some of the ideas, but overall the seems like a completely new class, not just a tweak of berserkers in general. I seriously think people need to just stop playing zerks like warriors. That is how I see the VAST majority of people play berserkers, I even started playing that way with my last pinned zerk. Just started throwing myself with dirt and lag. You can see big differences in how I started playing, and how I finished playing Lmathr. Im in the process right now of doing a zerk to try and squash the stereotype of zerks are horrid, and need some huge buffing. A few MINOR things might need tweaked, but again I do not think there is alot wrong with zerks, maybe a larger boost to hit dam for rage. Maybe give them whips ( I never understood why zerks did not have all weapons to begin with)

I think this isn't just for zerks; she just used them as her example.

The title is misleading then

I like some of the ideas' date=' but overall the seems like a completely new class, not just a tweak of berserkers in general. [/quote']

First, this system proposal isn't about berserkers being underpowered or overpowered. I am only using berserkers as an EXAMPLE (edit: thank you Tom for writing faster than me!) to illustrate my system concept. There are many threads (some started by me) about whether or not berserkers are underpowered...but please not in this one.

Second, the goal isn't to tweak or balance a single class. Moreover, I specifically outlined that there is nothing about making new classes or skills. My goals are to address the problems I outlined in the thread.

I'd really like to request that since I spent a great deal of time preparing this, for the betterment of the MUD, that you spend a small amount of time to actually read the full proposal.

Also, even if you don't feel strongly about it all, please take a couple of minutes to write a response. I really want to get a lot of responses on this so that I can update it and adjust it to what other people think. Simply "I like it" or "I don't like it" doesn't help me very much though...

This looks overly complicated and to me it looks like you are not just trying to change zerkers but everything.

I think the solution of the zerker problem should be something simpler if you want it to be realistic.

[edit] Just read you saying this thread is not about berserkers, so I get you want to change everything. You want to change completely I game which I like, into something I do not.

I did read it over, and it was a very well thought out and good idea, but you would have to create changes for every class in this manner of coursed. Im not turning this into a zerk thread, just the proposed changes where for the berserker class, so I felt the need to say something in that regard. SO I guess what I am getting at is next time you post something like this, you should also post a detailed list of things we are all not allowed to say, or do in your threads so a mistake like mine does not happen again.

You want to change completely I game which I like' date=' into something I do not.[/quote']

What parts of the change do you not like?

Do you like paths and selectable skills as they are now? This system isn't anything new. It is simply combining and expanding those two features.

You're right, the change does have a great effect on the system. However, on the player side, it is simply an expanded selectable 'perk' system.

Remember, the player only gets five independent selectable choices, which is considerably less complex than a crusader (who has more choices and then paths to consider).

Crusaders do get alot of selectables, crusaders are also a remort class as well. With those selectables as the main perk

Crusaders do get alot of selectables' date=' crusaders are also a remort class as well. With those selectables as the main perk[/quote']

That perk will be maintained, as this system incorporates the existing selectables and paths.

A win-win situation. All normal classes gain a degree of customizability (already implemented in some classes) while the others will gain even more. Crusaders will always be more customizable than non-crusaders, even in this system.

I just feel that massively overhauling or skill system would radically change the dynamics of PKing here, which all of us old farts fear change. Basically I guess it boils down to me thinking these are good ideas, but would make this a different mud. FL has had the same pk system for god knows how long. Adding an insane amount of selectables would cause all of us to basically relearn fighting, rethink all our equipping, nullify some equipment, nullify some racial skills. People pick stone zerks cause of neutrality and boulder throw, you give all races the ability to do the boulder throws effect, you nullify stone zerks as unique. Same with mino and charge, I cannot think of any reason to not pick the charge tree EVERY time with a zerk. I like the ideas, but I do not see how integrating them would not completely change everything we have spent years getting down pat.

I also think hard coding rp angles into the mud is a moot point. Computers HAVE to run on a set of parameters. YOu start here, you finish here. If he does this, you do this. Action then reaction. The nature of RP here screams individuality, you could never have a set of skills big enough, or a selectable table large enough to encompass roleplay possibilities. It is just not possible. How would you have let wymsicant have a selectable skill? What about Irpel? Or Morchial? It is just not a possibilty to code skills to encompass everyones RP, that gets into the realm of D&D.

take it from an AR refugee(i know there are more of you out there than just me): uprooting the foundation of the game to do something completely and totally different is a really bad idea, even if the ideas for change are good ones.

i like a lot of your ideas, and i think it would be cool to try, but if i wanted to play a game that is that different than this one i would already be doing so.

I just feel that massively overhauling or skill system would radically change the dynamics of PKing here, which all of us old farts fear change.

This is a very good and serious concern. But, I think, that everything must eventually change. This kind of change is following the pattern of changes that have already been integrated (paths, etc---which were also resisted heavily). So while it is a change, I think it is the natural next step (not a giant, random leap) from paths and does not deviate from the philosophy of the system we have now (not changing the structure or mechanics of PK in any shape or form). The old system is 100% preserved (you can continue to play the old berserker if you so wish) and no new skills/features are introduced. It is only expanding those already in place. I feel it is a very safe change in regards to this and one that I hope older players can appreciate and enjoy (me being one of them, of course).

People pick stone zerks cause of neutrality and boulder throw, you give all races the ability to do the boulder throws effect, you nullify stone zerks as unique.

This is half true. Yes, it is possible for some other combinations to get the thunderclap effect through specialization (I spend my picks on headbutt or haymaker as a berserker). However, the stone giant perk remains as they get this for FREE. Other races/classes (thunderclap is not available to everyone, even if they want it) have to spend very valuable selections to get that bonus. So, stone giants stay unique in these terms.

Same with mino and charge, I cannot think of any reason to not pick the charge tree EVERY time with a zerk.

This is an argument against the details of balance. I realize that my suggestions may not be balanced perfectly. However, even if you do choose the charge tree every time, you must give up some very tempting and useful other skills to do it. That is your playing style. You'd never get that thunderclap effect though! Sounds fun!

I also think hard coding rp angles into the mud is a moot point. .. The nature of RP here screams individuality, you could never have a set of skills big enough, or a selectable table large enough to encompass roleplay possibilities...It is just not a possibilty to code skills to encompass everyones RP...

This is a matter of philosophy. Yes, it is probably very difficult to incorporate all possible RP angles into the MUD. This argument could be applied against paths or even classes. Don't they limit RP? What do they do?

I think my system will expand the options greatly. It gives a lot more options and provides an automatic balancer. You have several RP archetypes (classes) which you then customize into your character (axe swinging dwarf). My goal isn't really to encompass all possible RP angles. It is to encompass a great deal more than we have now without introducing new classes or skills. It is forging a direct connection between RP and PK, which is very much lacking now...without compromising either.

I'm really happy you do like the system!

Once more, I can't stress enough that this isn't 'fundamentally' changing the structure of the game. I am not completely reworking the code or any such thing. It is taking what we have and simplifying it then expanding it a greal deal.

EDIT: Remember, this change looks huge (only because my post is large)...but the real effect to the player is relatively minor. It adds only five selectable skills, which is only slightly more complex than what we already have for warriors. This is not a drastic, fundamental change to the structure of the game. Most of my post was for the behind the scenes details (ex. getting the skills ready) and rationales for the change. The main benefits, as described, are for balance, RP, and attracting/retaining new players.

Hmm, I really like this idea, but I would need to take a gander at this system with all the classes applied to it. I really do think it would open up alot of playability, however, after a person runs through a class and finds what skills are most useful, they will just pick those time and time again trying to make a powerhouse, but if you could work the system where EVERY skill really would be useful at 50...then it would be about RP truely cause as far as PK goes each char would just have it's own style... Guess, I am just saying I can see how this system could really work, be fun, and better than the system we have now...but I would really like to see your take on ALL the classes well, at least those that would not be considered qclass...

Well again, your basically blending races here. High dex zerks get a bonus to haymaker, while giving up massive str and size. GIants forgo reliable haymaker and headbutt to a better charge and bodyslam. To start blending these you can get combos like this:

Mino zerk headbutt master: A charge happy mino who can thunderclap you? AND ignore prot shield % wise?

Stone zerk charge master: Same thing as above.

Dwarf healing and meditation master: A mag resist race that has no possibility of a shaman or necro EVER landing a kill barring absolute perfection from pet performance. Shamans would never fight this combo at all.

Ogre Fury charge + polearm master: Gaining not only an increase in charge damage, charge lag, and two handed skill. You now have an ULTRA lagging machine who you could never possibly outdamage in comparing hp%. Not to mention 103% in polearms, and monster cleaving potential.

Mino zerk headbutt master: A charge happy mino who can thunderclap you? AND ignore prot shield % wise?

Stone zerk charge master: Same thing as above.

Dwarf dual meditation master: A mag resist race that has no possibility of a shaman or necro EVER landing a kill barring absolute perfection from pet performance.

Ogre Fury charge + polearm master: Gaining not only an increase in charge damage, charge lag, and two handed skill. You now have an ULTRA lagging machine who you could never possibly outdamage in comparing hp%. Not to mention 103% in polearms, and monster cleaving potential.

Very specialized choices. However, you must take into account that the other class ALSO gets selectable benefits. Those choices you made have some GLARING weaknesses, like anything else that specializes in only one thing. If something is NOT balanced, this system is MUCH easier to tune than our current one, for the reasons I detailed in the main post.

Also, I think that this gives more independence to the races, not 'blends' them. Each race suddenly has unique benefits and play styles. You are interested in charge (lagging), which is fine. However, there are big counters to this strategy (moreso if other skills are updated to match the zerk ones). Balancing the small details can come later, let's look at the general idea for now.

Balance is very important to me and I do appreciate this kind of response.

Professor:

Although I'd love to prepare a template for every class, due to the time considerations, I don't really want to invest that much into it if this is a no-go. If you are interested in a certain skill/spell, I could come up with an example for you however. Thanks for the positive feedback!

after a person runs through a class and finds what skills are most useful, they will just pick those time and time again trying to make a powerhouse,

This is exactly one of the problems I am trying to address. I think there is a far less chance of this happening in my proposed system than in our current one. This IS what is happening these days.

Well I doubt shamans are going to get an increase mal time by 50% type of skill, same with necros. Most mages are rather well balanced at this point in the game. It is just that playing a melee requires more skill than a mage for the most part. Most mages can provide sanctuary, dispel magic, cause blindness etc etc. While melee rely on training themselves and weapons they get access to. The melee side of the game has ALWAYS required more than mages. THat is why when you get a moderate player (me) playing a strong combo (reaver voker for example) it is much easier than when I played a fire giant war reaver. Strictly because invokers are easier to play than warriors.

I like it.

Replayability of all classes would be 10 fold what they are currently. So many variables and styles would be amazing. All of that would add COLOR both in RP, PK, and most of all fun. Having selectables, whether going all out in one category or more even across the board.

Imagine the possibilities.