Rangers should lose call lightning

This is the kinda of talk I like to hear. Powerful arguments from those I consider **qualified **to talk about it.

I don't recall Ranger pets able to lag. Maybe that should change then?

Want to change Ogre race? How about they're not affected at all as Ogre Zerks but when it comes to them being Rangers, their pets lose trip and they lose one strength? As for Warriors, how about they lose one strength as well? I don't recall Ogre Zerks ever really owning everyone on sight, it was more or less the few who chose Ogre Rangers and once in a great while Ogre Warriors had their time in the sun, but really nothing outstanding.

Meric (Halfling Ranger Avatar Justice)? Baedrok (Stone Giant Ranger Warmaster) Both played by Belch of Doom. Baedrok was a pain in the ***, not sure about Meric.

I believe that Rangers shouldn't have dual parry either, they already get everything a warrior does except for riposte. Get rid of dual parry if they can camoflauge.

From the looks of it, Berserkers were already given a boost to their path choices. They really don't need anything else added.

The problem about skilled players that do well with a certain race/class/cabal combination is that the not so skilled players lose out when the nerfing stick is waved about. The really good players compensate and adapt, whereas the rest of us just got our skills gimped. As stated earlier, the ranger class is fine. Ogres excel at being rangers, perhaps a little too much. With some of my characters I found rangers easier to fight than others. Evil communers can actually win the attrition war by denying them the massive sleeping regeneration and healing up with cure critical.

Melinda

Good suggestions

Celerity

I agree somewhat. When you've got a large sized race with a fourth more hitpoints than giants, more dex, equal to or better strength, better healing and ignore, why pick any other race for Ranger, Warrior or Berserker?

I don't think they need -2 strength but I definitely agree with -1 size. That will get rid of them being able to dual wield some of the best weapons and will significantly lower their bash/bodyslam as well as make them more vulnerable to bash/bodyslam. Take away dual parry from Rangers and that size advantage from Ogres and you'll definitely see a difference.

Ogre's will still be the most popular choice for Rangers with 24 str, 18 dex, and super healing plus herb but you won't have them wearing some harder to block two handed weapons while dualing a whip, etc.

Mess with Ogres too much and will see another influx of Halflings.

Goldbond

Three great rangers from the past who did fine. Orcrist's Vyan, Zaen's Andolini and Celerity's Seri.

Evangelion

Morathi's Feral Ranger was Purliah maybe? Can't remember at the moment. I am of his opinion on that though. Still can't figure out why people haven't taken advantage of Feral Rangers, dualing weapons with their little haste while having the stat boost to dual parry, dodge and parry along with their awesome dex giving them an insane armor class. Stack on some staves and potions with barkskin and their dex at fifty with level 50+ armor and some other armor that boosts a few more stats. Someone go roll that up for me.

So my suggestions would be:

Ogres:

-1 size

Rangers:

• Whip

• Flail

• Dual Parry

• Get back throwing a shield for lag

Huh, wow, I didn't expect this to go to an "ogre" thread vs. a call lightning thread.

You have to look at the total ranger skill set outside of path specific skills (but keep that in mind because it only makes them that much more powerful).

• Herb, no penalty for failure, just move to a different room and try again. Compare that to a ninja's accupuncture! 8 hour's until you can perform it again and a HUGE penalty for failure and even a mild penalty for success. Same with battlemages.

• Camo, only rangers and a couple qclasses can see other camoflauged rangers. That's also huge.

• Free pets, takes what? 8 mins of real time to have 2 PERMANENT pets outside of them being killed. Compare to a DK who has to constantly be wary of when their charmie is going to turn on them.

• Ranged Weapons!!

• HUGE weapon selection and PUGIL!!

• Umm...I don't even know how many defenses rangers have, dodge, parry, dual-parry, shield block, two-handed...and an occasional beast jumping in front.

I don't like making direct comparisons to other classes because they're obviously done that way for balance issues but the point is, there are no penalties to playing a ranger. If their herb had a chance to fail and maybe poison them instead of heal them, that might be a good tweak. Hmmmm....

But as for call lightning, it doesn't make sense from an RP perspective to the class and gives them TOO much PK power IMO.

So skilled players like to play ogre rangers. That doesn't make them any more overpowered than any other combo that skilled people play. Ever noticed that ogre rangers tend to be either very strong, or else that person that you know you can run over naked? An ogre ranger that isn't equipped properly is fodder for just about everyone, regardless of the way you look at it.

And in a straight up fight' date=' I would've put my money on Rhazhakhar over Kronit (no offense, Calron).[/quote']

Just noticed this, but I killed Rhazhakhar in our only straight up fight.

Forgot about the whole herb thing. Perhaps instead of poisoning the person it only heals them like 10hp as a humor thing? Instead of giving every ranger pugil, how about let them choose as like the path choice. They can either get pugil or dual parry or some other skill depending on the path choice they go with?

I don't know about this. How many great rangers are out there that people are complaining about that are dominating?

They are extremely well played characters.

There are many examples of other combos that are doing very very well right now. Lorfaine, Ecasio, Rorrik, Malfious, Kyatha, Zehava, Issasthys, Morchial (RIP),

If you change Ogres, are you killing the Ogre Berserker and Warrior?

If you change the Ranger, are you killing halflings, humans etc that want to play Rangers..

I get owned by most personally, I dust off and keep trucking, it just seems like great players who have been around for awhile and have played every class are going to do well with any combo. They know the ins and outs of what is vuln to what, who to fight where, best armor for what class, where to find the cons they need ... etc......

To end.. put me with the best power combo, and a good player with the worst combo will still beat me bloody because of the above.

Go figure out how to beat x class, its the old saying mages>x>y>z>mages

I would suggest either don't allow ogres to be rangers or have camouflage not work for ogres (or be say 50 percent likely to fail) because they're too big and lack dex (stone giants it can still work because, well, they're made out of stone).

If you take away dual parry you're basically ruining the class. Same for taking away flail. They're warriors--warriors of the forest. They have most of the skills of warriors except lagging skills (also doublegrip, berzerk, fourth attack). That's always been the foundation of the class and I don't think it should change in order to accommodate more recent additions. That's not usually the way toning works--you tweak what's been added, not change the fundamentals of the class. Comparing them to ninjas, who get assassinate, thieves, who get blackjack and steal, dks, who get malform and many more spells (except maybe for archers, who effectively get an array of afflictive and maledictive spells), and paladins, who get cure critical and sanctuary, is absurd. As for thunderstorm and control weather, again, these have always been part of the class and stem from their evolution from druids. They're the only druid spells they still retain, and they're easily over come by fighting indoors. (Note there are indoor areas in forests as well--just look up and see if you can see the sky).

Also as to ferals I think they are potentially very powerful--in fact I thought a feral Watcher ranger might be overpowered (although this was with the original Watcher skillset)--but in most hands I think they are hard to play. They're small so against melees they can get bashed, it's hard to get a good hitroll unless you have good knowledge of equipment, they don't get the HP of a giant-sized race and they're not resistant to magic. Then there's the fire vuln. A feral syndicate would be very nasty, but you don't have the instadestruction that you have with an ogre in basic rare equipment and a couple of decent weapons.

Other random tips for fighting rangers: always try to poison so they can't hide. Also blind takes away herb.

people shouldn't be talking about nerfing the ranger class, that is completely fine. its the ogres that are the problem.

A smart ogre ranger will never fight without having items to cure blind with. An ogre ranger in certain cabals can cure poision easily. An ogre ranger will be utterly destroyed in mitril gear and a decent weapon against an invoker.

One other thought: could take away thunderstorm and control weather from ogre rangers because they can't pronounce the words correctly. Also Warmasters should not be casting spells IMHO.

Rangers in Warmaster lose thunder storm.

Not barbarians.

That is because they are not like traditional warmasters.

One other thought: could take away thunderstorm and control weather from ogre rangers because they can't pronounce the words correctly. Also Warmasters should not be casting spells IMHO.

Thats not a bad idea either, but it doesn't fix the problem of ogres being the only real logical choice for warriors and arguably for zerks.

I agree with ogres being overpowered. I think ogres should lose 2 str.

Giving them a total of 22 strength. They should NOT have equal or greater strength to any giant. They aren't giants. But I do think they should keep giant size.

Rangers could use a slight tone down, I don't think they are too overpowered though. Perhaps make dual parry and pugil selectable skills. You choose one or the other.

I also think they should lose the occasional guading they receive from pets.

Ranger Tribunals ARE overpowered. But so are a lot of classes when mixed with tribunal.

I just recall hitting a ranger tribunal (Not corinkorth) in combat and them being "guarded" for three straight rounds, with me not having a single chance to hurt them. I was wielding a polearm.

EDIT: They should definitely lose staves. Why the hell do they get staves?

saying they should lose both dual parry and staves is a hell of a lot more than "slight tone down." and they shouldnt lose either. btw they have staves in order to sanc their pets.

rangers should lose nothing. damn ogres. fine tone them, i do agree with that now. just not the STR and SIZE reduction at the same time. tell you what, when you see a werebeast wiping up the playerbase like old snotrags, the class that is in existence to be good rangers, then do something to rangers.

Rangers do not need staves to sanc their pets. That stave is USABLE, and does not require the staves skill. What other melee gets staves? They have no business using them in the first place.