11 minutes ago, Erelei said:
I assumed players wanted more control, as they do here in the decision making process for modifications and direction of the game, just as much as they want more control in the forum side of things.
I've always wanted to see an FL discord channel though it would have to be entirely OOC, people can talk in chat in other games and it's a pretty good backup should anything happen to this forum. I've been thinking about making one for awhile, but I assumed it wouldn't be endorsed for what I assume the same reasons the chat went down.
I don't care what you guys do - a Discord is fine by me.
That said, nothing will happen to this forum. I can promise you that. Unless of course I suddenly just go off the deep-end, but still. There's things in place to prevent the forum issue of 2010 (or whenever it was) from ever happening again. We own the forum (not someone whose never around), and we own the domain (specifically, it's in my name at the moment since we're not an LLC), and we own the DNS.
Nothing should happen.
https://discord.gg/rguUVSP
Took me about 3 minutes to set up, I've set up imp and imm roles and can pass over ownership whenever.
9 hours ago, myrek said:
Location location location
Is there a reason it isn't part of the "main" forum? What's the benefit of pulling it out of the primary flow of information where everyone already hangs out and burying it 2 clicks deeper on the site?
I mean if we can discuss Skyrim VR here, there's certainly room for MUD client scripting.
It's one click away for me as there's a "recent activity in my clubs" sidebar. It's two only if you're not a member of that club. Still only seconds out of my day to do them and not dissimilar than the traditional table display of the forum where you click the subforum and get informed as to which topics are new/recently posted in. Yes, a down side is that they're not optionally included in the main feed. It's not like you can't follow them either. Get messages when there's posts.
Yes, we can discuss Skyrim VR on the main forums, but then the OOC forum were around since the Forums 2.0, when it moved away from Network54. It's only with these latest forums (3.0 as it were [and even then, only recently]) that clubs came into play. There's plenty of room on the main forum sure, though before now, nobody thought to even suggest a subforum for client scripting. By this time, the clubs are a part of the forum so why not? If this game popped up now, it would make sense for the clubs to be the OOC (or similar) section of the forums.
With something like the scripts making people aware of the actual functionality of clubs, perhaps it'll bring other clubs into the mix. A partial segregation of information isn't necessarily a bad thing in any case. There is a thing as too much information. For example, I wouldn't mind if any and all political discussions were kept in the area of the clubs. That way my main forum feed isn't (sometimes) inundated with posts of that nature. Set up a club and let everyone hash out their petty political squabbles there to their heart's content.
Ultimately, this boils down to case of personal preference.
I like the clubs.
And we've really derailed this thread, haven't we?
The real question of the player run clubs is "would it be monitored and sensored by the game admins". How many times do threads get locked and comments get deleted just because one of the admins decides it serves no purpose? Lets say for a minute that you guys get freedom of speech within a club, your forum handles are all over it which will gain you a crapload of 'in game' crap. What do you think would happen if people 'only' posted in the club because of the extra freedom of speech? ... Your club will be shut down to get people back onto the main forum so their comments can be sensored again.
Dont waste your time or energy, the illusion of control will dissipate faster than a DK's charm wears off ;)
Yeah, that's pretty damn negative. Well done UC.
@Unknown Criminal Your IG actions don't reflect upon your forum actions and vice versa. You're free to post what you wish, and by doing so you risk having your posts being edited or removed entirely from the forum depending on what you post. If you have multiple characters and they all have very similar traits though, it's not difficult to figure out who a person is playing. For instance if you're only posting when you're playing, and it becomes a trend, it becomes obvious whether people want to know or not. Just because someone creates a section in these clubs doesn't mean it'll be removed, and I assume that they will probably follow at least closely to the rules already stated in the main forum which people are already allowed to pretty much post a majority of what they want to. It's when it comes to blatant flaming or pointing out bugs openly that it's frowned upon for multiple reasons. One of such reasons is that if a bug is exploitable and not easily fixed, there will always be someone who would try to capitalize on that bug as much as possible. Other reasons is that blatant flaming means that people will hold grudges. I myself can hold a grudge against someone for quite a period of time, or I could choose to just let it go in the byways and forget about it. As much as I'd like to say I could choose which ones I let affect me more than others, I can't and there have been times when as stupid as something was, I still became upset and pissed about a person even years after it happened. Mostly IRL not based on the game though.
My core of my point is that people have different tolerances levels, what some would consider 'fun forum action' others would consider it a useless post, then lock or delete it.
People are addicted to Facebook for two reasons, the first is to see how the other half lives and the second is to vent their frustrations of day to day life. Imagine how fast Facebook would go under if Mark Zuckerberg monitored, sensored and deleted everyone's posts that he didn't agree with, lol ;)
All Im saying is that player run clubs are a ruse, they will be monitored and sensored by the game admins OR get shut down if it becomes more popular than the main forum because of the freedom of speech. The chokehold on this game and forum is too tight where the club will only last as long as it follows the exact same strictness. So if that's the case why bother running a club, just open a few new threads and let the admins deal with the public instead of wasting your time :)
Lol the game and forum are on a chokehold? Dude, what conspiracy shit are you trying to spread here?
Do the same rules that apply to this forum apply to the clubs?
You forgot the third reason. It's similar to wanting to see how people live, but there are people who are cyber stalkers who use it for that very purpose and would be considered 'addicted' to it. And Facebook is monitored, but probably not in the sense you're meaning. Sure the clubs may possibly be disbanded if you're going to go into quests information or something specific that shouldn't be talked about. But that's the same as this forum. If you're going to create a club that specifically is there to bash on people I wouldn't be surprised if it were shut down. The main reason people get threads shut down is typically because the thread is beginning to spin out of control with rage and emotion that may not have been intended to begin with.
If it's someone trying to rally a call for all the other players to voice their opinion that almost always begins to spin out of control and what's the purpose of it? Remember Despiser? So do I. He quit because of situations like that where players brought it to the main forum accusing him of cheating which eventually drove out the fun for the entire game and resulted in him quitting. F0xx was getting continual despise of players believing he was cheating or stating that it was only because of the class being OP as Kotrag. To me that is the complete antithesis of what we're meant to be doing which is attracting new players. If they were to see how much hate people have towards others for doing well, why would they waste their time coming here to play and eventually hit that level just to be continually told that they're cheating somehow?
I understand rage of when something happens as I myself tend to get heated over stupid things to the extent I've hit brick walls out of rage, I've rebroken my back in a heat of rage doing something stupid because of it, and I've even lashed out with words towards people I know would break under what I'd say to them. Does it make it right? No. The major difference between the forum and RL though is that in RL you can't go back in time to see it if it wasn't already recorded and put on YouTube, where as the forum you can at least have it locked up and some people would be none the wiser who don't go back and read old posts.
Lets take for example the last one that was. Player felt that they were wronged by another character for fighting them and went to point out every single damage affect upon them and felt it should be addressed. Rather than going to Prayer they took the same path to help further people's angst against that character and player in general choosing to publicly post it instead. That player finally stated that they offered to use another method to which the player instead of saying yes and continuing they chose to log off and post the log. Horrible way to go about it by anyone. It went from a quiet discussion where it should've remained to a locked thread to force down people's throats their own injustice of what happened. These are the sorts of situations though that result in losing players rather than keeping them. On one hand you have the player who posted and may leave because they chose a horrible avenue to result to begin with. The other is the player it was directed towards. We're creating the stigma that if you choose to excel, you only risk being belittled and poked at by people who can't defeat you and are always losing to you. I for one would rather have those posts locked than seeing how quickly things go from an adult conversation to childish remarks because a person feels their skills are at their peak and shouldn't be killed/beaten so easily.
In terms of the rest of the forum being locked away you see similar reasoning as to why they were. Politics get heated and begin to degrade quickly in most cases. Though we have proven recently to be able to get over that without resulting in childish antics. I myself refuse to go on Facebook during election season because I have lost friendships over simply responding to a persons post after they preached acceptance when they thought Hillary would win and then went into a rage once she hadn't and I pointed it out. It also happened once when news was going around about people sending chemicals to those who supported Bernie and they chose to make the accusation that it was all Trump's fault and how his followers were being told by him to do so. Which after seeing the same video and reading a bit about it, I pointed out the fact that it wasn't because of him but rather just bad eggs that exist regardless of people running for office. In terms of creating a club simply to share scripts on they use for varying purposes in the game, it's not a bad idea. It's actually understandable to do so and it would help both new players and old alike. How would that bring up issues of removal of a club though? You don't have to join them if you want to, but to stir up a situation where there was none to begin with because you feel as if you personally have been wronged is asinine. The game and the forum are two very different entities that shouldn't be crossed. The Shoutout portion is literally the only point that should be allowed, and even that one I'm against in most cases for these very reasons. If we can't learn to separate the two, you only serve to create illusions that they're both the same which is false in every facet. If you feel that it is creating a negative stigma where you yourself are being singled out, do exactly what I did years ago. Quit reading the forum, and if you choose to quit the game then so be it. I've done this several times and only once did so because I felt the OOC portion of the game was too much for me. I stopped for two years then, at another point I quit for 4 years, and I even just stopped reading the forum once to ensure I wouldn't think too much into things.
I wouldn't mind seeing a target bar due to the fact that it doesn't harm the game in any way or give someone a heads up really. It could go away when you're dirt kicked so you lost that illusion of knowing how much they've been hurt and so that the other person could have their pets rescue them so there's no edge to it. I myself have one in my client that tells me what % they're at roughly already, and does it help? No, 90% of the time I find it pointless and I don't rely on it. But when I do pay attention to it, it's usually down to the wire sort of situation where it can go either way.
I think this train has jumped its track. Can we get some focus back?