constitution

This is a very viable character selection.

For example, i normally have 6 Stat points to max after character creation.

If i do not use train untill pinacle and chose to keep the stat penalty, i can latter invest 6 trains in +60HP. This represents around 10% of the Base HP of a Mage/Cleric.

You can for example go with minus 4 DEX than your max racial DEX, and use a +4 DEX belt. This would analog to using a belt of +40 HP.

Another example. CLerics can easely make STR their dump stat with no problem due to the existing Giant Strenght Spell that will cover most of their penalty. +6 STR At Pinnacle, i think.

Of course this opens a weakness to the Spell WEAKNESS, and to sudently droping your weapon in middle of combat, because your Giant Strenght just Droped.

Of course this opens a weakness to the Spell WEAKNESS' date=' and to sudently droping your weapon in middle of combat, because your Giant Strenght just Droped.[/quote']

Or because your savant shaman/cleric is fighting a blademaster who likes using crit arm/crit kidney

People already save trains that plan to try for a cabal. This wouldn't change anything it would merely give a little more incentive not to join a cabal.

There are all to many power gamers around here... No wonder rage delete still happens - people are so focused on getting 'perfect rolls' and such that you can't enjoy the game...

L-A

Giving non cabaled players a few perks wouldn't increase the power gaming. I would argue that it would do the exact opposite. You might see a few more Otoths running around if they could do something as simple as meta their CON back up as it decreases. As it is now there is no advantage for being uncabaled except for staying out of cabal warfare. Any cabal member that is T or above will have tremendous advantage over you. I would like to see something to balance this out. This is just one idea.

Indeed, and being able to train your con back up, or being able to get an extra 20-30 HP from training sessions hoarding doesn't really bother me, and it should really bother anyone.

This is a very viable character selection.

For example, i normally have 6 Stat points to max after character creation.

If i do not use train untill pinacle and chose to keep the stat penalty, i can latter invest 6 trains in +60HP. This represents around 10% of the Base HP of a Mage/Cleric.

You can for example go with minus 4 DEX than your max racial DEX, and use a +4 DEX belt. This would analog to using a belt of +40 HP.

Another example. CLerics can easely make STR their dump stat with no problem due to the existing Giant Strenght Spell that will cover most of their penalty. +6 STR At Pinnacle, i think.

Of course this opens a weakness to the Spell WEAKNESS, and to sudently droping your weapon in middle of combat, because your Giant Strenght just Droped.

I did this on a few characters but certain eq setups have negative stats which can really chip away and make life hard (no one wants to wear camel gear at lvl 50 :-P ) Weaken only compounds the problem...

For the record, I have fully trained warriors with one prac into all weapons, defs etc to get max hp - I just never felt the need to max the stats once caballed. Ironically - NONE of the characters I trained this way were anywhere near as sucessful as the characters I trained but didn't look for pure max numbers on.

I took an important lesson away from that :-P

L-A

That you to are a power gamer, and that you burn out during the training of that character.

It happens all the time.

That is why you need to take a light mentality and master things as you go by PKing in the 50's. Else you never actually enjoy the character.

Min max characters get the playing drive from building the maximazed character possible. Once you attain that goal, there is little reason inside your mind to play it.

Other crap characters are just fun, and you make friends while standing in the commons just hanging. So you tend to have more joy playing them, thus leading to a longer live and more success.

That you to are a power gamer, and that you burn out during the training of that character.

It happens all the time.

That is why you need to take a light mentality and master things as you go by PKing in the 50's. Else you never actually enjoy the character.

Min max characters get the playing drive from building the maximazed character possible. Once you attain that goal, there is little reason inside your mind to play it.

Other crap characters are just fun, and you make friends while standing in the commons just hanging. So you tend to have more joy playing them, thus leading to a longer live and more success.

When you play 6+ hours a day that level of training only takes a day or two and its over (and that's the playtime I once had). Those characters at 'pure max' were all caballed and played for copious time at lvl 50. It wasn't like I got to lvl 50 and deleted.

Training burn out is easy to stop. Don't log for for a few days or grab a few ranks.

I don't think I evern truly 'power gamed' to the level I see people consider the norm now. No one trained before lvl 23 or 27 back in those days - no one. There was no one trying to get tainted and pets to 'remort' their adventurer to lvl 1 for a fast rank. I reckon if we stripped all eq and pets on remort adventurers wouldn't be used.

In the scheme of things my doing 10 weapons from 1 prac on an ogre isn't powergaming by today's standards. Considering I didn't use cabal resourses to max my stats (and could have) I don't think I fit in that category at all. I may or may not be/have been a strong player but I'm no power gamer.

L-A

There was no one trying to get tainted and pets to 'remort' their adventurer to lvl 1 for a fast rank. I reckon if we stripped all eq and pets on remort adventurers wouldn't be used.

[L-A

To me that is just lame. I really wish that would stop. I saw 4 or 5 adventurers all on the other day and we only have a couple of n00bs. Now thats some serious power gaming.

Jeez guys, stop whining, if people want to waste their time with going adventurer then please let them!

To me that is just lame. I really wish that would stop. I saw 4 or 5 adventurers all on the other day and we only have a couple of n00bs. Now thats some serious power gaming.

I kinda of Agree.

They should know that you can actually roll higher at character creation if you do not adventurer. So their saved practices do not count.

1 train = 10 practices.

If they really want HP that badly go with no trains for stats and cabal thing at pinnacle.

Going adventurer this day and age for training purposes is also strange, because we have so little players that i do not even get attacked pre 50 range.

Just save yourself the hours and go straight the class that you wish.

The only case i could see adventurer going is the particular case of Monks weapons training.

Mya, you don't keep practices after you convert to another class.

You practice skills/spells on an adventurer, that you save by not having to practice the same skills again after your conversion.

Things like:

Mace,parry, scrolls

Second attack, hand to hand

Kick,Fast healing, Shield block

Haggle, Two handed, Meditation,Fast healing

Enhanced damage

13 pracs for clerics.

Lolololo. 13 pracs = 10 HP.

Still a waste of time if you ask me.

Lolololo. 13 pracs = 10 HP.

Still a waste of time if you ask me.

Considering how crappy it is leveling a cleric with the mud at non-peak hours/low population in general, the pets are a huge boon.

Back in the Mud's early days I used to train all my melees from 1 practice too. The past few years I suppose I have just gotten a little more lazy with my characters due to restricted playing times. Now I ALWAYS train my skills spells to 75. Funny thing is I have had a good bit more fun and - gasp - been just as, if not more successful in pk without the extra "practice" hp. I say just go with whatever you have the most fun with, but all you newbies remember one thing. The extra 30-100 hp you might gain from saving all those practices will not make you that much better, getting "sufficiently" trained and getting to 50 and pk'ing will. My .02

Seems that regaining stats through the use of Cabals is a perk of having to fight, whereas as a Pinned Non-Cabal you dont have to.

I will say I am with HR that there should be some sort of help for non cabaled players to get their stats raised. To help out new players who may not want to cabal their first few pinns to get a feel for the game.

If you don't cabal your early characters, you are in for a world of hurt.

Even the best players have a hard time remaining competitive uncaballed.

Much like choosing a lesser race/class combo...it can't really be recommended unless you see a unique tactic that hasn't been widely discovered yet.

Look I dunno what this conversation is about but I condeath alot it seems, gimmie something to make me last longer and your all dead! All I want is to not lose con to mobs and its on like donkey kong yer heard!