Non-illithid Necros?

I disagree.

A necro doesn't need sleep to win, at all. If they catch somebody unpoisoned/poison wearing off then they can go for that sleep and try and get a nice advantage. If not, they can still kill their foe. Same goes for Shaman with one of the effects of insomnia. Both of these classes can dispel magic too, poison being able to be dispelled and the most common form being low level.

A thief can steal a sack full of poisining items from their foe and stop them poisoning themself. They have a trap that allows them to remove the poisoning effect too. Again, the most common form of poison is low-level and falls pretty easily.

Ninjas, having a little more melee power, can use the poison to their advantage. Strangle isn't as essential to a ninja as blackjack is to a thief (not saying it's not important, but IMO blackjacking on a thief is more important) and besides, there are downsides to poisoning yourself.

Firstly, the obvious one, is no regeneration. This you notice a lot when running because your moves drop quickly and you can't regenerate them quickly.

Secondly, is the damage. Sure, it's minor, but it soon becomes a little more painful when you're fleeing with awful wounds and you're poisoned. Classes that can't cure poison can only vomit once per 24 hours, that's one cure of poison per 24 hours, provided they've eaten recently.

Thieves, ninjas, necros and shaman have no problem in their ability to perform with things as they currently are provided they have a little smarts. Not to mention that there are a couple of other classes with the ability to do things that can be prevented with poison and without that, you can be considered as good as dead. Remove the ability for the rest of the playerbase to protect themselves from these skills and, well, I can't see it being a good thing...

Dey

The only people that this really hurts, or that poisoning should really hurt, are necro's (I guess shaman?). Why? Any thief or ninja worth their weight in salt will not be seen until they want to... which means after you're either assassinated, or black jacked. Anyone can get invis potions/pills so the thief can be as hidden as a ninja or bard. Then, they just have to be patient... as with all things FL, fight when you've got the advantage. And I'm talking at 50, of course, because isn't that where the game is meant to be played? Isn't that were the game is balanced?

I can't believe Dey is the only one of you who thought to dispel poison. Not a sleight on Dey, I'm just saying that he has been here half the time most of us have. It's either you all didn't know or are guilty of the most horrible of offenses to the pbase... information hording.

Why take away poisoning? It's a great tool, and a great burden. I'm pretty sure there are ways to get people into trouble and surprise them... but before I post those for sure on how to hurt someone who has poisoned themselves (if you don't have dispel), I'm going to test them out first. So after my father's gig, I'll check them out then report back.

a-g

Illithids necros if done right have the ability to not only put you to sleep' date=' but can shut you down from the opening strike till your dead...totally destroying a slept enemy without them so much as being able to fart.[/quote']

Any necro can do this - and i do know what you're talking about in relation to illithids. Its a nice advantage but has its drawbacks and is by NO MEANS fate acompli in the situation you describe.

Necro'st at lvl 50 aren't scary becaue of sleep. It lands a lot less than you think. Necro's are scary because done right they can really dish it out. Done wrong they are just good to laugh at as you pump up you malform.

L-A

Firstly, the obvious one, is no regeneration. This you notice a lot when running because your moves drop quickly and you can't regenerate them quickly.

Exactly why my thieves don't hide and are always 'just there' when facing a poisoned opponent. Run about at bit and he's a sitting duck - dead then, not matter how good you are. You can keep them poisoned and lock them in position until they have 10 hp left and finish them. Easy.

L-A

Any necro can do this - and i do know what you're talking about in relation to illithids. Its a nice advantage but has its drawbacks and is by NO MEANS fate acompli in the situation you describe.

Necro'st at lvl 50 aren't scary becaue of sleep. It lands a lot less than you think. Necro's are scary because done right they can really dish it out. Done wrong they are just good to laugh at as you pump up you malform.

L-A

I have pinned 3 necros in the past year, two of which where elders in cabals and two of which where illithid.

Illithid necro is the ONLY necro that can open with a stun. Ghouls touch plus "the not mentioned skill" can give 3-4 rounds of lag, throw in the inevitable bash/trip from zombies and golems and you have complete 100% lock down from start to finish. Other races have sleep but cannot open with a stun, plain and simple.

Sleep lands more often than YOU Think. Illithids have superior wisdom/int that lets their mental spells land harder, put them in savant with a certain power, tap a soul, and you already have a sleep that will be rarely resisted. With Stytnlye and Vorqwuith (the second in nexus not savant) I slept at leasy 3/4 of my foes and of those nearly 90% died wthout being able to move.

Next I bet your gonna say Powerword kill only works sometimes.

Now, necro's dont have to rely on sleep at all, but illithid necros can expect it to work more often.

I have pinned 3 necros in the past year, two of which where elders in cabals and two of which where illithid.

Illithid necro is the ONLY necro that can open with a stun. Ghouls touch plus "the not mentioned skill" can give 3-4 rounds of lag, throw in the inevitable bash/trip from zombies and golems and you have complete 100% lock down from start to finish. Other races have sleep but cannot open with a stun, plain and simple.

Sleep lands more often than YOU Think. Illithids have superior wisdom/int that lets their mental spells land harder, put them in savant with a certain power, tap a soul, and you already have a sleep that will be rarely resisted. With Stytnlye and Vorqwuith (the second in nexus not savant) I slept at leasy 3/4 of my foes and of those nearly 90% died wthout being able to move.

Next I bet your gonna say Powerword kill only works sometimes.

Now, necro's dont have to rely on sleep at all, but illithid necros can expect it to work more often.

You know what I see in your post? Sensationalism.

3-4 rounds on 'ilithid ability'/ghoul? I call BS. I'd need to be on the receiving end to believe that.

Sleep worked that much eh? Were you cherry picking targets? Because I can get those stats too if I single out ogre's and giant's to sleep. Try casting in on elves, drow, fae's and other squids and watch your sucess rate plummet even with your mighty illithid stats.

Powerword doesn't only work 'sometimes'?? What are you trying to say, you can get 100% kill rate on cast? I'll call BS on that - having killed with the spell in PK I know this isn't the case. Maybe you're only using it on sleeping ogre's again?

Soul tap doesn't afftect sleep's chances to land btw.

L-A

You know what I see in your post? Sensationalism.

3-4 rounds on 'ilithid ability'/ghoul? I call BS. I'd need to be on the receiving end to believe that.

Sleep worked that much eh? Were you cherry picking targets? Because I can get those stats too if I single out ogre's and giant's to sleep. Try casting in on elves, drow, fae's and other squids and watch your sucess rate plummet even with your mighty illithid stats.

Powerword doesn't only work 'sometimes'?? What are you trying to say, you can get 100% kill rate on cast? I'll call BS on that - having killed with the spell in PK I know this isn't the case. Maybe you're only using it on sleeping ogre's again?

Soul tap doesn't afftect sleep's chances to land btw.

L-A

not trying to gain attention by stating that, but to illistrate where I get my info, and game experiences from in regards to the debate at hand. Where does yours come from?

No I didnt cherry pick anyone, you know as well as I (I am assuming you know) that when in a cabal you dont get to choose your enemies, they are chosen by affiliation. The only races that I have had consistent trouble landing sleep on are halfings and elves. Faes and other illithids have a better chance to save, but with the right gear/cabal power you dont have nearly as much trouble.

The issue is that people are debunking sleeps potency at 50, which is rather inaccurate. It is a very viable and works much more often than people are implying.

The second issue is that people are suggesting that other races when playing necros have as many advantages as an illithid over a sleeping opponent. This is incorrect. An Illithid can open with a stun that lasts 3 - 4 rounds when using Ghoul touch, 1 - 2 rounds without ghoul touch. The duration of the stun is partially detrmined by mental saves and spell level. ANy other race CANNOT open with a stun so the necro has to initiate combat with either murder or a spell both of which lag them just enough that the opponnent gets the opportunity to try and flee and enter commands.

Soul tap effects all mal's I believe sleep has a save for mental to land and a save for mal for duration, though I could be mistaken on that note. However on the cabal power and the light I know for a 100% fact the potency is increased in both duration AND chance to land.

However on the cabal power and the light I know for a 100% fact the potency is increased in both duration AND chance to land.

Don't forget the ring. And the helm. But the helm you might not want to use.

EDIT:

Sleep is almost a certain kill if you land it, hence it is fairly easy to avoid it if you know what you are doing. Usually, I focus on saves, not being poisoned and that round of combat is pretty nice, but the drawback is it might land anyway.

EDIT2:

Most necros I've fought were either trying to land sleep or dispel magic, a slept opponent is at serious disadvantage, and zombies will start hurting if they can start tripping/bashing or sanc drops. Most necromancers are fairly one-dimensional, much like dark-knights they rely on massive damage output, and spells like plague/poison/weaken are usually only used if they actually manage to land sleep, and even then it is more important to ghoul touch/lagglock.

A vuln that is only readily exploited in any real way by invokers or maybe good clerics.

Any weapons that exploit it are either very low av-dam, or rare as rare can be.

I can think of a weapon I've used to RAPE illithids before... Actually two now.

An exotic and a two handed spear.

Rare yes? But arent the best things in life?

Edit: Azun?

Edit2: PWK works, but you have to put in the prep or it wont.

edit3: Sleeping isnt the be all and end all of any fight. I have often run from being slept by a necro, it all comes down to player skill, skill selection and knowing where you are no matter if blind. Some prep in the potion and curatives department helps too.

I think the easy solution to combat the playerbase's inclination toward illithids as necromancers would be to add a weapon into the game that any class could use, but not make it so common that everyone can get it.

WC

I think the easy solution to combat the playerbase's inclination toward illithids as necromancers would be to add a weapon into the game that any class could use, but not make it so common that everyone can get it.

WC

There's one of those. Almost two.

I can't quite tell if this is WC's sarcasm again.

Dey

I can't quite tell if this is WC's sarcasm again.

Dey

WC

I think both necromancers and illithids should be removed.

I think the race 'catties' (a race of large cat birds) and super-druids should be implemented.

I think the druid class should be renamed Jr00id.

I think I might play a Jr00id one day.

I think that there needs to be more shields.

I think that 90% of the people I have encountered going for qraces such as avatar, demon, or undead have ****ty *** rp.

I think that this mud is awesome.

I think I would like to buy it.

Is it bad that my nose and ears started bleeding when I read that last post? I think the word Jr00id gave me E. Bola...

More Shields!!!

necros should be able to take their zombies and combine them into one mega zombie!!

"zombie force COMBINE!!"

"zombie zor attack!"

Rofl, that really made me laugh

I'm down with Mega Zombie so long as WC and I get ef'n wonder twin powers, dammit!

a-g

What the hell is a wonder twin?