I'm back for round 2

A while back I posted at the request of Malchaeius logs of Ogre Regen and then at the request of Lytholm to post another race/class regen and I'll show you what his posts held as far as information goes.

I did some quick calculations in Excel on how much you are healing:

HP Percentage Healed

1

145 9.965397924

271 8.719723183

420 10.31141869

549 8.92733564

664 7.958477509

782 8.166089965

838 3.875432526

929 6.297577855

1050 8.373702422

1134 5.813148789

1187 3.667820069

1259 4.982698962

1302 2.975778547

1389 6.020761246

96.12456747 96.05536332

The 96's at the end are the totals - close enough, the difference is due to rounding by Excel.

Got any logs of non-ogres sleeping to full health from 1hp - please post and I will calculate those percentages and we'll have something to compare to.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - ogres will heal at the same rate (ie percentage) as all other races now? (ie 150% hp and 150% regen)

Lytholm

Assuming 826hp max for the slith thief:

HP % Healed

1

63 7.506053269

97 4.11622276

156 7.142857143

175 2.300242131

230 6.658595642

297 8.111380145

356 7.142857143

421 7.869249395

492 8.595641646

539 5.690072639

618 9.564164649

679 7.384987893

730 6.17433414

780 6.053268765

826 5.569007264

Top of 9.5% healed vs 10.3% top with your ogre. You're ogre seems to get better healing percentages as a rule - which is unsurprising due to the larger con.

Without doing a more detailed analysis it looks (to me at least) that ogres have sucessfully been reduced to healing at the same rate as all other races.

Lytholm.

This was only a small set of what had been posted in the thread, but that's what it looked like in comparison between a Slith Thief and an Ogre Ranger after the change to Ogre Regen. Slith was at 19 con because he'd lost two fighting Tribunal while the Ogre had 24 con so that's how it heals out as far as those two races go. The least amount of healing I think there was two instances with Ogre where I was awake and the rest were ticks that I was sleeping and the Slith I believe I was awake for at least one of them and the rest were sleeping.

It needs to be more controlled I think. You should be sleeping for the entire time and we should probably use a human as base to compare against. Also, how about healing masteries and so forth. 50 HP on a ogre seems to be way too low for a tick regen.

It should also be the same classes. Human war vs ogre war. Human ranger vs ogre ranger, and so forth.

Honestly to see the full range...it should be ogre zerk vs. I can't really think of what has the lowest con + a low health class with like a human thief as the average line.

Highest regen vs lowest regen would be ogre zerk vs fae invoker by my knowledge.

It needs to be more controlled I think. You should be sleeping for the entire time and we should probably use a human as base to compare against. Also, how about healing masteries and so forth. 50 HP on a ogre seems to be way too low for a tick regen.

It should also be the same classes. Human war vs ogre war. Human ranger vs ogre ranger, and so forth.

Slith Thief and Ogre Ranger. Both have fast healing and only one has the ability to heal themselves more than the other with skills such as camp and herb the other is just S.O.L. I was really scared once when I noticed that I went from healing around 80 or so HP to only 15 in a tick while sleeping but realized shortly after I was drained and felt somewhat better. Ogre will get up to 103% with natural proficiency in fast healing as a Ranger and Slith Thief I think had around 90% or so fast healing proficiency, can't really recall his % for sure. A little low, sure, but a much needed tone for Ogres in general. Ogre Rangers can deal a massive amount of damage to one person at any given time it just takes patience and the likes.

I nearly two rounded one of the Savants when they were warring with Knight when I caught him off guard one day and I think he just about shat himself in the process. So I wouldn't say Ogres aren't unfriendly for newbies, just if they don't like to see a lot of damage dealt to them by prepared foes that are mages, they may not want to try that race to begin with.

Have you even played an ogre, ever?

First of all, ogres never regenerated anywhere near that much. Ogres regenerated between 100 and 250 hp a tick, with 50 and 300 being pretty much the outer limits for freak accidents.

Ogres now regenerate, typically, between 40 and 140 hp a tick. Keep in mind these are guesstimates from playing an ogre since the change, but without actual logs, but on the whole, I'd say that most races regain between 20 and 80.

Ogres still take the same damage as before, their regeneration is still as easy to stop, and for these reasons, they are nowhere near as newbie friendly as they were.

Newbie friendly races include: Human, Half-Elf, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling (certain classes), and Drow

I firmly believe that the following races require decent knowledge of the game to handle with any sort of success: Ogre, Feral, Slith, Faerie

The rest of the races are in between to varying degrees.

You can argue all you want. I'm stating my opinion, as was asked. You're entitled to your own.

PS - Next time you try to argue my points, could you try to do it in a less irritatingly rude way? Have you not been cornholing enough sheep recently?

Yeah, I played Bradah - Ogre ranger. Sleeping I could regen anywhere between 250-400hp... camped? 600 some ticks.

Not to mention the 4-5 early ogre warriors I played early in my career.

Not everyone just talks out of their arse Balinor.

Ogres were never for newer players - in fact, they were discouraged for new people when I first started playing due to their drawbacks.

IMHO - ogre are not now, nor were they, for newer players starting out. Once you have to throw down vs the top level players you will find out in short order that being able to murder a dozen mobs in 30 seconds without losing half your hp as an ogre means very little on the PK side of the world.

Simply put- vulnerabilities amplify you mistakes when made. In PK against a skilled opponent they WILL be using your vuln to their advantage. You die fast with a vuln to everything magic.

If you're going to go learning pick something without a massive vuln. A stone giant is a good place to start if you want to do a ranger, warrior or zerk. You have only the giant vuln to mental (which isn't easily exploitable) and a list of good points (mundance resist, natural profs, racial skills, good melee stats, giant size) that is almost as long as some people's e-penis's.

They are a great race - one that is very under utilised.

L-A

IMHO - ogre are not now' date=' nor were they, for newer players starting out. Once you have to throw down vs the top level players you will [b']find out in short order that being able to murder a dozen mobs in 30 seconds without losing half your hp as an ogre means very little on the PK side of the world.

L-A

I think the newer players will find out that in the "pk side of the world" there is very little they can do anyway. Regardless of race.

I think the newer players will find out that in the "pk side of the world" there is very little they can do anyway. Regardless of race.

Maybe and maybe not - they are going to get a chance to do more without a glaring vuln though....

L-A

Yeah, I played Bradah - Ogre ranger. Sleeping I could regen anywhere between 250-400hp... camped? 600 some ticks.

Not to mention the 4-5 early ogre warriors I played early in my career.

Not everyone just talks out of their arse Balinor.

First of all, I'd like to see a log where you regenerated 400 hp uncamped, and I'd also like to see this 600 hp camped. Those would both be enormous outliers of what was typical ogre healing, before the changes to regeneration.

Second of all, you only countered one of my points, thus proving that you are still talking out of your ***.

Everyone behave. I grow tired of having to say this. Next time I'll just ban.

You heal more hp on an ogre if you are hurt more. Used to be over 400 hp a tick sleeping if you were about dead.

Ogres are a good choice for the absolute starter and for the experienced. They will be asked to go to get eq often, they are relatively viable at the low ranks; due to their massive hp they will have a chance to realize "Oh, hold on... I am getting attacked?" -> flee and run/recall/teleport; they are able to single most mobs who have the eq they need.

To be really successful at 50 as an ogre warrior/ranger you will NEED some eq knowledge (how to get the saves to survive your vuln without loosing too much hitting power, best way to learn this is to have a look at what experienced players are wearing on the same class/race combi).

I really would like to see a log of an ogre healing 400 hp in a tick.

And even if that is how it used to be, that isn't how it is anymore. The ogre change removed the only thing that countered the race's huge vuln. I know I won't be playing any ogres anytime soon.

Ogres biggest nemesis has always been battlemages and blademasters, and now they stand literally zero chance against those classes.

I've gotta go with L-A on this one... I don't think ogres are terribly newbie friendly. They used to be, when more of the game existed pre-50, but right now the 50 game is basically all there is unless you're a qrace applicant, and any newb playing an ogre at 50 will be slaughtered. Their large hp doesn't prevent death that much considering their large vulns... I've two rounded ogres plenty of times with an invoker, for instance.

I've gotta go with L-A on this one... I don't think ogres are terribly newbie friendly. They used to be' date=' when more of the game existed pre-50, but right now the 50 game is basically all there is unless you're a qrace applicant, and any newb playing an ogre at 50 will be slaughtered. Their large hp doesn't prevent death that much considering their large vulns... I've two rounded ogres plenty of times with an invoker, for instance.[/quote']

There is no case in the game whatsoever where you two-rounded an ogre where you would not have similarly two-rounded any non-magic resistant class. None whatsoever. To do that requires three factors. One, lack of sanc. Two, lack of afflictive saves. Three, relatively low base hp. With those factors in mind, you can easily two-round, with an invoker, a non-sanced, save-less, and low-base hp human, elf, drow, or any non-magic resistant race.

Ogres biggest nemesis has always been battlemages and blademasters' date=' and now they stand literally zero chance against those classes.[/quote']

Bmages? Are you serious? With blades unable to magic damage they can't hit an ogre's vuln, dancing may or may not depending...

As Virigoth said - its mals that really make it hard for ogre's, not afflictive spells. Hp and pure power can be used to beat off afflictive spell users - maledictives that land easier are scary, scary things....

L-A

A battlemage will usually be an uphill battle for - any - warrior.

Bmages? Are you serious? With blades unable to magic damage they can't hit an ogre's vuln, dancing may or may not depending...

As Virigoth said - its mals that really make it hard for ogre's, not afflictive spells. Hp and pure power can be used to beat off afflictive spell users - maledictives that land easier are scary, scary things....

L-A

Actually, I've probably played as many ogres, caballed and uncaballed, as anyone else and battlemages are definitely the most difficult to fight. Blademasters are a second to that, so I'd have to agree with Bali here.

There is no case in the game whatsoever where you two-rounded an ogre where you would not have similarly two-rounded any non-magic resistant class. None whatsoever. To do that requires three factors. One' date=' lack of sanc. Two, lack of afflictive saves. Three, relatively low base hp. With those factors in mind, you can easily two-round, with an invoker, a non-sanced, save-less, and low-base hp human, elf, drow, or any non-magic resistant race.[/quote']

Lack of sanc is not required, nor are lack of aff saves. Ogres you have a far higher chance of having that first dispel go through, and ogres have a lower chance of actually saving vs spells overall. Those spells are more likely to hit for their full potential against an ogre than against others.

I have a few questions on a base set for a cleric...still pre-50, but my 50 set probably won't be that much different...

First my score: (paste didn't go well, I know)

Effects are from eq only, no spells active.

Str: 20(20)^2 || Level: 45 Sex: M Age : 48(123h) |

| Int: 20(20) || Class: cleric Ethos: neutral |

| Wis: 21(21) || Race : human Align: evil |

| Dex: 20(20)^3 || Hp : 616/616 Exp : 3536/362464 |

| Con: 20(20) || Mana : 97/919 |

\ Lck: [||||||] / Move : 411/411 +Hit: 12 +Dam: 19 /

/---------------/------------------/--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Malchaeius |

| Slash : -156 || Spell : -2 || Faith : Discord |

| Pierce: -152 || Afflictive : -2 || Weight: 228/362 |

| Blunt : -155 || Maledictive: -27 || Items : 27/37 |

| Magic : -170 || Mental : -19 || Prac : 45 Train: 3 |

| || || Gold : 10k |

and my equip:

(Glowing) (Humming) a Translucent Combat Lantern

(Glowing) a sparkling ring

(Glowing) a sparkling ring

a black velvet cloak

a black velvet cloak

(Glowing) a double plated helm

an encased hydra stud

a Soldier's Breastplate

a pair of decorated arm bands

(Glowing) a pair of runed-black gauntlets

(Glowing) some double plated leggings

the wind boots

a Mangled Shield

(Glowing) a minor globe of invulnerability

(Humming) the chains of Avarice

a blue bracer

a blue bracer

(Humming) a blue steel warhammer called, "Wizard Whapper"

a blue steel helm and visor

(Glowing) (Humming) an animated blue orb

nothing.

At 50 I think I can upgrade to the following solo:

torso: samite gown

neck: might switch between medallions and ?? (pendants rarely in)

boots: probably jagged, boots of prot are never in

waist: not sure

face: not sure, golden mask is never in and don't know many others.

Weapons: probably an assortment of crappy maces

Any other suggestions on 'base' eq? The other thread is geared more towards melee. I need some mage/communer suggestions.

My goal is to find a decent base set I can get together in 30 mins or so.

Is such a low base hp normal for human clerics? My base is going to end up around 600 somewhere. I figured humans would get more than that.