Backstab on larger opponents?

Syntax: backstab

This skill gives thieves the ability to plant a dagger into the backs of

their opponent, striking them by surprise as well as inflicting a massive

amount of pain. This surprise attack is only effective to victims who are

in excellent condition. Opponents of a much greater size may not be

backstabbed.

My question is regarding the last sentence. I know I have seen smaller sized thieves backstabbing giants...I'm pretty sure I've been backstabbed as a giant by a human or duergar thief...or am I imagining it?

I think its more about the damage that they take, even though I think it should do more damage. Large creatures have larger organs and more vuln points that a thief could stab

Actually, it should do less. Think about the difference between stabbing a dog with a kitchen knife and stabbing a bear. It's a lot harder for that one stab to kill the bear, because he's bigger and can accomodate larger injuries without them being fatal.

But yes, giants can be backstabbed by thieves, but it may be possible that giants can't be backstabbed by thieves while AWAKE. Not sure on that by any means, so don't quote me.

This is a little off topic, but it applies...

It is best to knock out your opponent before you attempt to backstab them, for two reasons. They cannot counter your backstab while blackjacked AND you'll deal more damage with your stab against a sleeping opponent due to their lower armor class.

Thanks folks...just was curious if it was stated wrong.

Also, you're just plain more likely to hit them while asleep with the backstab.

Ive always wondered this though. To me, dual backstab is two backstabs at the same time. But I think the mechanics of the game lend it two two repetitive attacks. I could be wrong but it certainly would explain why the second backstab is usually much weaker

player a's backstab obli* player b

player b wakes up

payers a's dual backstab mut. player b

I could be completely off, but I could swear I have blackjacked a monk before that was countering back stab. The first hit, he awoke and countered the dual backstab. This was with Salvence and a while back, so I could be just making things up too.

It's true, I've seen someone counter the dual backstab.

Good. Then honestly, what are your opinions on that. To me a dual backstab should be done at the same time and should not be able to be countered at all of the opponent is sleeping.

Good. Then honestly' date=' what are your opinions on that. To me a dual backstab should be done at the same time and should not be able to be countered at all of the opponent is sleeping.[/quote']

Agreed.

worth posting on the suggestion page?

While a dual backstab should not be able to be countered, it should do less damage.

Long ago as a mage i've been backstabbed + dual backstabbed and died from that alone. It looked like this...

=== DISINT

*** OBLIT

Lets not make this even worse for mages.

The help files does not explain this very well, But if you backstab a giant you will land the first backstab but will not even attempt the dual backstab, Point being is yes you can backstab a giant but you can't dual backstab a giant due to thier size, try it and see...

Umm, I'm 99.9% sure that isn't true. Giants can be backstabbed and dual backstabbed.

What Calron said.

Good. Then honestly' date=' what are your opinions on that. To me a dual backstab should be done at the same time and should not be able to be countered at all of the opponent is sleeping.[/quote']

Its a balance issue (IMHO). I have seen (and had done to me) UNSPEAKABLE for backstab. Dual backstab followed with a <>. That is more than enough damage for the skill balance.

On a non-vuln class I had no trouble hitting ===DIS=== DEM with my thieves. Sleeping opponents always took for openers, vuln races more. Non-sleeping usually OBLIT and MANGLE (sometimes DEMO). All more than enough for me to easily overcome my targets as a thief in the following combat.

The skils in themselves are sufficently powerful enough not to make dual hit you while 'sleeping' THe damage increase will make it too easy (IMHO) for one hit kills.

As for not being countered - vs the counter classes a thief needs the dual backstab for the extra hp to get htem across the line in combat. Making it non-counterable if you are asleep would make sense to me. I wouldn't agree with it hitting you as 'asleep' though due.

L-A

Size also affects another skill closely related to the backstabs. That's all I'll say about that.

L-A

I know what you're talking about, and it's never seemed to make a huge difference to me. Maybe a little, but not enough to be a big deal.

I dont think it is a huge difference. Ive done plenty of that something on all sizes. I havnt noticed any real difference.

Contrary to popular opinion Size Matters.

And in most skills.

Also speed is also a plus.