Sounds like you need a different mud, I dont see how being allowed in a cabal at 45 instead of 50 is going to change all that for you. I am not trying to flame you here, I just think you may have issues that cannot be solved by slightly earlier induction to a cabal. Frankly, if you can make it to 45, you should be able to make it to 50. If you are really sick of being killed and fulled by pinns b4 you pinn, make a human, most pinned players wont be able to touch a 0 exp pen class till you hit 47 or 48. As has been stated a zillion times, cabals are a privelage, not a right. They are for those who show excellence, or at least who put it a lot of effort. If you are not excellent, not getting your pinnacle is not putting in enough effort to get caballed. If you are excellent then odds are you can stomp pinns even if you are at 45 yourself, in which case I am sure your clan imm noticed and is just waiting to cabal you the second you do pinn.
Cabals
Perhaps. I am in no way claiming to be excellent at all. I can count the PKs I have scored on my hands with some fingers left over. I have never once pinned a character, 48 being the closest I've ever come. Cabals as the ultimate reward for excellent play is just as it should be, but is excellence defined in only one way. Perhaps someone is not a great "twitch" player and loses in combat all the time. Doesn't mean they aren't more valuable to the furthence of the game because of RP than someone who completely owns the entire pbase, but only brings PK talents to the table. In my mind, a combination of the two would be ideal. Of course, you are blessed with crazy typing skills or you aren't. You can learn to a certain degree but there is innate skill involved. You are knowledgable about R/C combinations and how to PK or you aren't. You can certainly learn, but how much you retain or are able to access is again different for each of us. I'm sure of the lesser known players could construct an RP so grand and creative that they would be given some sort of R/C combo that would rock the entire game to its roots.
There is no replacement for knowledge and experience, as I am quite aware. There is also no replacement for imagination. How far do you think this game would get without the dreams of the pbase and IMMs...about as far as PK skills will take you in the real world.
Just because someone is new doesn't mean you should put them in the catagory of "no cabal" just because they are new and not really good enough. Some of the best PKing experiences are done in cabals. Same with the best role play experiences. Not all, but most. Newbie's shouldn't be excluded from this.
I do however agree with the statement that some classes are more powerful than others at certain levels. I also understand that the immortals would want the most "powerful" in the pk range. Although I don't believe it's fair to all the players. Some people just suck at PK. Cabals are incentive to get better, to role play harder, to try harder, and most likely to stick with it. Making it so the people who aren't "too" good just means they MAY never get good at it. I see the SAME people in the cabals. They delete one/con die one, they get another character and get in the SAME cabal or another one.
I am not trying to act as if I know what the immortals system is for inducting new characters. But from what it seems, not very newbie friendly. I could be wrong.
I have, also, recently had a non-pinned cabal char.
Its hard, not impossible. I got in a cbaal at rank 36 on one of my chars in the last year, probably even last six months, but I can't be sure.
Get into Nexus, pre-40.
Get into Knight, pre-40.
Get into Tribunal, pre-50.
Then maybe you'd have merit on this thread. I remember having a rank 15 Justice human warrior and it didn't detriment the game at all.
I have seen newbies or at least poor pkers in almost every cabal.
BUT they at least rped their asses off and put in the dedication to pinn their character. The imms here are very open to giving chances and from what I see reward great rp heavily. But to say that good pk and knowledge of race/class in inborn is ridiculous. If you can honestly say you have been here any amount of time and not improved...well then perhaps a pk mud is not for you. I have improved enormously since my first days here and still have a long way to go, but c'mon, becoming a good mudder is not about speed typing or inherent ability. There is a HUGE learning curve.
edit: this was meant in response to KRins. And dude, PK is NOT the only measurement of greatness at FL and thats a fact. It just always helps to be good at it. But if you really want to do some serious RP and not have to pk too much, become a Herald or dont join a clan or cabal and do your own thing to make the game a better place.
PK has alot to do with inherent ability. A big part of chasing is instict. Just knowing where they went. Just knowing that they recalled and not got out of the area quickly.
A big part of it is learned too. Experience gets you over those shakes. Learning the lands and the classes helps. But, there is something extra special that it takes to be one of the big dogs. Timing, instict, chasing...alot of it cannot be learned, it's just developed.
Hold on...so you need to be level 50 to defend the city? I have noticed several wanted persons well below the pinn and even a few outlaws' date=' so your argument is slightly flawed.[/quote']
What do you mean defending the city? From raids? Whatever your definition is, I am not saying one needs to be level 50 to defend a city. I am saying one needs to be level 50 to effectively carry out a Tribune's duties. Re-read my previous posts for what those duties are.
The existence of non-pinnacle criminals do not detract from the fact that Tribunes must deal with rank 50 criminals. Like I have said, roleplay problems involving the PK range limit and the difficulty of fighting higher ranked criminals make non-rank 50 Tribunes unfeasible for most, if not all, players.
The existence of non-pinnacle criminals do not detract from the fact that Tribunes must deal with rank 50 criminals. Like I have said' date=' roleplay problems involving the PK range limit and the difficulty of fighting higher ranked criminals make non-rank 50 Tribunes unfeasible for most, if not all, players.[/quote']
No, but it does however throw off one of your arguments. The PK range exists for a reason. A rank 50 hunting down a rank 20, or a rank 20 hunting down a rank 50....it's still a bit unfair on either way, though, more unfair for the rank 20 being hunted down by the rank 50.
I thought when dealing with out of pk range with tribunals the blood guard was who attacked and sorta changed depending what lvl the criminal was...
It does. But, think about the moves a lvl 50 char will have, has opposed to a lvl 20.
The lvl20 char tries to run away but is chased down by the elite player behind the Tribunal with 200 more movepoints. Now how is that fair?
True, but a good runner doesnt need to go far to get away. 200moves should be enough to evade someone if you are smart. However the reverse is quite true. A lvl 20 tracking a 50 is very hard because the 50 can just go in a straight line till the 20 loses all moves. But dont forget great tick timing, sleeping just b4 a tick will give you back enough moves to continue without hardly missing a step.
You try evading someone like Despiser or Festorvian with just 200 moves for however long your wanted flag is. You sleep a right before a tick and you lose a second or two and elite runners will be all over you like white on rice in a porcelain dish in a snow storm. You can't afford mounts forever at lvl 20 (well, most people can't....obviously some of us like to do alot of plate selling)
I've never liked how freaking tough those guards are. Sheesh. I'd like at least a chance to kill the guard, but you practically have to get a couple other criminals and group just to take it down, and how often does that happen? I know there's plenty of good reasons for it, it just still doesn't change how much it sucks.
Tribunes/Justices using a Guard to capture criminals below their PK range is one of the foundations upon which Tribunal/Justice was created. It is the whole point of their existence, without which there is no way to truly roleplay a law-enforcing cabal. Unless we allow all ranks to fight each other, this is the way it has to be. The alternative would be to place the low-ranked criminals within the rank 50 Tribune's PK range until the criminal is captured. But this solution is even worse for the poor young adventurer.
Another way to look at this is to compare the adventurers. A rank 50 Tribune will always beat a rank 20 criminal if they were allowed to fight each other. Giving the rank 50 Tribune a mob to capture the rank 20 adheres to this fact. On the other hand, giving a rank 20 Tribune the possibility of capturing a rank 50 criminal, who would have totally annihilated the Tribune, is absolutely ridiculous.
Can I just frickin have my lvl30 dk? Sheesh. lol winkie
Wathok, you have some good points. If I wasn't so tired ( I ALMOST FRICKIN RANKED AND TRAINED TO 50 IN TWO DAYS!! SO CLOSE SIGH) I would stay up and debate this some more. But alas, work comes early in the morning.
I miss my lvl 15 human warrior justice 
My lvl32 drow bmage Savant
I have the same response as Zrothum. I had been up for literally days. I'm sorry if it was illogical argument. What I was trying to say was that at each rank, a cabal has certain things that need doing. Maybe a rank 32 undead for watchers to track down. Maybe a 27 criminal or a bounty on a rank 36.
In retrospect, Cabals should be reserved for the strongest (be they pinned or extremely talented persons with slightly lower rank.) I would, perhaps, like to see any increase in clan activity. That is something who everyone, regardless of ability, can join. Some way of identifying rival clanees would be nice. It would also create excellent RP reasons to fight, something I struggle to find as I try to learn the ins and outs of the game.
Sorry if I upset you Mister E...after reading my posts again with some sleep they sound just as strange to me as to you.
Dont be so hard on yourself man, I was never upset. I just disagreed with some stuff you said. When it comes to clan involvment I would like to see something more than just quests. For militia you can help by watching over cities and report to the tribunes, though within the other clans it seems there is less you can do. I definately agree with the rule that keeps clannies out of cabal warfare but surely there could be more ways to show your support than running quests.
Tribunes/Justices using a Guard to capture criminals below their PK range is one of the foundations upon which Tribunal/Justice was created. It is the whole point of their existence, without which there is no way to truly roleplay a law-enforcing cabal. Unless we allow all ranks to fight each other, this is the way it has to be. The alternative would be to place the low-ranked criminals within the rank 50 Tribune's PK range until the criminal is captured. But this solution is even worse for the poor young adventurer.
Another way to look at this is to compare the adventurers. A rank 50 Tribune will always beat a rank 20 criminal if they were allowed to fight each other. Giving the rank 50 Tribune a mob to capture the rank 20 adheres to this fact. On the other hand, giving a rank 20 Tribune the possibility of capturing a rank 50 criminal, who would have totally annihilated the Tribune, is absolutely ridiculous.
I dunno... there are times that I would rather fight a Tribunal, over his Blood Guard.
At low ranks fighting the guards strangely resembles the last time malch hit me with that weapon of his, during the throne rp plot where he attacked everyone who tried to touch the throne...