Locked Keeping up with the times,

In the current environment of the mud we see two opportunities arising caused by the dwindling player base and the increased experience bonus.

1. It is difficult to acquire and maintain a group of three people.
2. Leaving the group to go practice a new skill often inspires one of the group mates to take leave.

This creates an environment where we are forced to keep ranking instead of stopping to go and learn the new skills. In the Everwild this is not an issue, as characters an enter the rangers guild there easily enough, learn their skills and keep right on ranking. This gives the Evil players a unique advantage. I suggest that we enable a few other Mobs across Aabahran to be able to assist characters in practicing new skills. For instance: Training Lerant, Fewmaster Toed, Mab, The Gardner, The Demon Hunter, and The Guardian Sentinel, would place "trainers" near almost every well used ranking area.

Lets take advantage of our opportunities and make a positive change.

I agree with that to a point. Sometimes when ranking in farther areas I'm not worried about the group splitting if was to go train, it's that getting to the city and back is annoying.

The pros of having a training/practice mob in or closer to far off ranking areas means less hassle and faster ranking for the vets who wanna pin asap. 

The cons are less people in the cities, noobs do less footwork, noobs advance too fast, noobs don't get trained.

IDEA: How about allowing players the option of hiring a personal trainer? A purchased (non combat) mob that will stick around to help practice and train (it's master) and then nofol itself at 50. It could even be a little djinn that sits on your shoulder in the dragon slot, or the floaty slot, OR just worn on shoulders. Gotta have a setback for the bonus you know ;)

UC

Why not focus on fixing dwindling player base?

The original idea is quite good actually. I doubt it will change anything at all, but it will be a good quality of life change.

As for:

1 hour ago, Gaunticles said:

Why not focus on fixing dwindling player base?

Is there anything specific you have in mind?

Low rank goodies/high rank evils will get something like the ranger guildmaster, as will high rank goodies. It's on my radar.

In the meantime, low rank goodies have access to the ranger guildmaster if they use an alternate training area instead of the tombs, albeit the mobs may be a bit harder as they don't have the holy vuln. 

That is to say, the northern part of the ruins of xymerria.

Wasn't there a time when Aruncus could teach skills and was summonable? 

Maybe bringing that back could be an idea. 

I think retaining players should be addressed, then looking for new members. Otherwise new people will play, then just leave out of frustration.

5 hours ago, f0xx said:

The original idea is quite good actually. I doubt it will change anything at all, but it will be a good quality of life change.

 

As for:

Is there anything specific you have in mind?

Let's have a conversation and identify the top reasons why we can't retain players.

Currently, I fall into that category. I am someone who has spent quite a bit of time to learn the tricks of the land. I have been lucky to make a few characters and have them caballed, even getting myself a qclass/qrace.

The reason why I have stopped playing is that I'm pretty bad at PK. In my opinion, most of the community are veterans and have really good PK skills.

Losing gear is a very negative experience that everybody will eventually happen to them. It's just that if your very bad a PK it tends to happen more often to those people. I think it reinforces a negative experience when playing that cultivates antigaming habits like logging off because there are scary players online. 

Roleplay and PVP are awesome but very hard to get right. With constant concern for Gear and not having a great PVP sense, you can be distracted from roleplaying. For me roleplaying takes all my concentration, you could be having a great experience interacting with other players and all of a sudden an Evil Character who has never met your character or spoke to you before will message you saying he wants to eat your corpse and ask's where can I find you? Suddenly I have to end roleplaying and resolve the PVP situation.

These are just my opinions and I know they could very well be unique. But if new players who haven't had the time to get good as the Veterans have their characters rickrolled and lose equipment that worked hours for and invested I wouldn't be surprised if they left. 

I'm not suggesting we get rid of PVP or GEAR or Roleplay but there should be a solution to make it so it's not debilitating or negative experience as it seems.

@Gaunticles your main concern seems to be eq related? Would that be fair?

What feedback (good, bad IDC) do you have on the moderate tier? Also lets not forget we've had cabal E's be moderates in the past so there are no 'limitations'  to the success of a Moderate character.

I do not think that the dwindling player base can be linked to any ONE cause. It is the culmination of aging players who have lives and interests outside of Aabahran, combined with the changing dynamic of internet games in general over the last twenty years. When we started this, the original Everquest was new, and really our only online "video" competition. Many people around the world were still on 56k modems, so video gaming online was sketchy at best, but slow moving text based games became very popular, very fast. By 2002 high speed internet connections were becoming popular in the united states, more potential players tended to drift toward the exciting new "video" games that the internet provided. Even then we still managed to gather new players, people with slow computers, or people who could not afford pay to play games. As time marched on those pay to plays became free to plays, and we lost more players to the changing technology. Even with the smaller player base we have, watch what happens when the next FallOut or GTA comes out. We will lose a few for a few weeks, it happens, and then repeats itself as a few more must go beat those new games. Players gonna play, its the nature of the beast within us all.

I think the difference between top tier gear and entry gear is too big. 

Back in the day after a full loot, you could potentially go grab a suit of mithril gear and a power staff, some vials then have a decent shot at pk. 

These days, no one is pking anyone with black-steel gear at 50.

Id vote we upgrade that gear, the dragon/chimera/tainted gear or make the God suits not as great. No one will be scared to lose gear if it's only a marginal upgrade. 

Sure some players will lose the feeling of progression when it comes to gearing but I'd wager new players are more important, but we also have Rp points as progression now.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

I think the difference between top tier gear and entry gear is too big.

I completely disagree. I can guarantee you that for every most "top tier" pieces of EQ you can name, I can name at least 5 alternatives.

[EDIT] And then you even have diminishing returns. That's one more thing that lessens the gap between top tier and mediocre gear.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

Back in the day after a full loot, you could potentially go grab a suit of mithril gear and a power staff, some vials then have a decent shot at pk.

That's somewhat true, but has absolutely nothing to do with the top tier gear being too good compared to the mid tier gear.

Back in the day we had more players, so the godly tier EQ was distributed among very few top players, so most of the players were wearing rags. Couple that with the fact that most of the players back then didn't know how to itemize properly, hell most of the players don't know that even nowadays. As time passed, multiple threads about lack of rares made the IMMs bump the rare limit many times. Also many extremely potent non-rares were introduced. Also the playerbase got smaller. Also new items got introduced which gave many many great alternatives to the "top tier" gear.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

These days, no one is pking anyone with black-steel gear at 50.

That's also true, but again, has nothing to do with the thing you complain about. Nowadays noone PKs in "mithril" because rares are much more common.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

No one will be scared to lose gear if it's only a marginal upgrade.

The strong PKers rarely even loot nowadays, and people still don't want to fight them. Not just that, but many of the best EQ slots can be filled by items which can not even be looted from you. So I don't see how anything gear-related will solve this imaginary problem.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

Sure some players will lose the feeling of progression when it comes to gearing but I'd wager new players are more important, but we also have Rp points as progression now.

Firstly, loosing the feeling of progression is the biggest bane of any game. Noone wants to excel in a game while gaining no real advantage due to his excellence.

Secondly, new players are more important? Than what? Already existing ones?

Lets be real here - we haven't had new players for many many years and we most likely won't get any. The goal should be player retention and attempts to draw back the people who keep an eye on the forum but don't play.

Lastly, I find such threads very comical. Everyone and his brother pretends to know the answer to the revival of the game, while at the same time most don't even grasp the most basic concepts of it.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

I think the difference between top tier gear and entry gear is too big. 

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

I completely disagree. I can guarantee you that for every most "top tier" pieces of EQ you can name, I can name at least 5 alternatives.

[EDIT] And then you even have diminishing returns. That's one more thing that lessens the gap between top tier and mediocre gear.

You don't think the difference between black-steel,chimera,tainted etc and a godsuit is too big? Just compare the stat lines, there is a huge difference. I honestly just don't think the game is balanced at the godsuit level, things like basic defenses and skills don't work, heck some entire classes have fallen off the grid due to it. 

2 hours ago, Wade said:

Back in the day after a full loot, you could potentially go grab a suit of mithril gear and a power staff, some vials then have a decent shot at pk. 

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

That's somewhat true, but has absolutely nothing to do with the top tier gear being too good compared to the mid tier gear.

Back in the day we had more players, so the godly tier EQ was distributed among very few top players, so most of the players were wearing rags. Couple that with the fact that most of the players back then didn't know how to itemize properly, hell most of the players don't know that even nowadays. As time passed, multiple threads about lack of rares made the IMMs bump the rare limit many times. Also many extremely potent non-rares were introduced. Also the playerbase got smaller. Also new items got introduced which gave many many great alternatives to the "top tier" gear.

The average power level of people you'd fight was much lower, 60hit/dam WITH 40 saves wasn't a thing. With the average being lower, the gap between the entry level gear and what they were using didn't feel as big and if we're not going to lower the stats of the godsuit items, we should make the entry items better. I guarantee you'd see more moderates if baseline black-steel gear gave you 40hit/dam and 20 saves which might lower frustrations, and lower frustration means less people quitting.

2 hours ago, Wade said:

No one will be scared to lose gear if it's only a marginal upgrade. 

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

The strong PKers rarely even loot nowadays, and people still don't want to fight them. Not just that, but many of the best EQ slots can be filled by items which can not even be looted from you. So I don't see how anything gear-related will solve this imaginary problem.

I don't know why you think this is an imaginary problem, I guess you aren't in contact with as many ex and current players as I am. Its a legitimate problem or at least a very popular opinion. People tend to not want to fight people if its considered unfair, the only character I've refused to fight and would purposely dodge recently was Kotrag WITH the ash cloak because in my opinion it was unfair. Instead of dismissing what multiple people are saying and believing nothing but yourself, you need to make an effort to listen. You have gaunticles here, a recent player who no longer plays (which is the prime candidate for who you want to retain) telling you exactly why he feels the way he does, listen to him, work with him, ask him leading questions to gain an insight into why. Offer up suggestions and see what he would think. Don't just shoot down things because you don't like change.

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

Firstly, loosing the feeling of progression is the biggest bane of any game. Noone wants to excel in a game while gaining no real advantage due to his excellence.

A lot of competitive games would disagree with you: CSGO, DOTA, Starcraft. They all have no form of "progression" besides your skill level.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Most of the most played games have no form of progression. Unless you want to count cosmetic upgrades and the like, in which case we have similar things like rp bought rooms and items, renamed items etc.

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

Lastly, I find such threads very comical. Everyone and his brother pretends to know the answer to the revival of the game, while at the same time most don't even grasp the most basic concepts of it.

Whats your answer then? You've awfully quick to shoot down many ideas but hardly ever offer any yourself.

9 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

@Gaunticles your main concern seems to be eq related? Would that be fair?

What feedback (good, bad IDC) do you have on the moderate tier? Also lets not forget we've had cabal E's be moderates in the past so there are no 'limitations'  to the success of a Moderate character.

@Ulmusdorn yes I think you are right when I think about it. If getting geared wasn't such an endeavor I think I could get rickrolled without being so sad about it lol.

I have played moderate and I may play one again in future soon. My only problem with it is the rare limitation which I understand is only fair because of perks of being moderate.

I have some crazy suggestions.

You could do away with rare limitations and rare count, items are always available you just need to be willing to go get them.

You could change moderate and remove the rare limitations and make it so items cannot be looted from a corpse. But make it so Ruthless has some enticing perks, example: fast-tracking joining the cabal, qclass/qrace, cabal promotions. Gain more RP points or RP items and service is cheaper. Faster leveling. I'm sure the Veterans have some ideas they can throw out that would appeal to them to make it fair.

Also, you shouldn't give up on getting new players. I personally have been able to get 3 players who never played a mud before to try Forsaken lands. One even got pinnacled.

How do people feel about applying loot restrictions to ruthless like it is to moderate?

Moderate can lose 3 items or loot 3 items. Ruthless could loot 5 or lose 5. And hardcore has the option to loot everything or lose everything.

Most of us don't full loot. The times that I have PERSONALLY full looted usually fall into one of two categories:

1. It is a tough opponent that has expressed the desire to full loot me.

2. They won't stop harassing me.

Other than that, I might rid my opponent of a weapon in order to make them go away for a bit or take something to give to my cabal mates that are suffering.

What about increasing the level of adventurer to 50 for new players. Give them the same rare limitations as moderate but after 70 (subject to whatever folks think is best) hours of play they are forced to remort and pick a class.

This would give new players time to learn the basics, travel with 50s without the worry of being player killed constantly, and they couldn't horde rares due to the time limit. Give them skills to help them solo semi-difficult mobs and areas.

Maybe give them the ability to duel to stun so they can get a taste of what FL PK is like without the risk of losing items while they learn.

Personally I don't play because the best rewards require interacting with the forum, which kneecaps my ability to randomize ip through vpn. Since I don't trust this immstaff not to be punitive against me I lose all privacy by seeking in game rewards through ooc channels. I am for a free mud world and the tendency of this staff towards a disciplinarian and permission-based approach is a non starter for me.

Everybody wants to win, if people come here to play and continuously get smashed they will not play here anymore.

We need to make more basic information available in game for new players, IE:

Maps with actual directions to ranking areas. Evil/Neutral Ranking(10-30) (From center Mir) eesssswsssssssssw

We need MORE equipment at lower levels and direct maps to that equipment, and by more equipment take blackwatch for example and apply it to the outlaw raiders north of Val, complete suits of 'same name' gear. The new Elemental canyon is uhm... great but alot of the equipment there is titled which makes it hard to remember for new players. I think the Pilgrims should have a red dragon concept where each of them carry a full suit that boosts 1 area of either saves, hit, dam, hp, mana, or ac. That way when people create ranking groups they know the tank needs to be in -ac while the back guys can rock damage gear, something along those lines :)

New people dont want to explore to find Ofcol, they want to explore to find a ring of accuracy. So by giving them direct maps 'eeesessee' to ranking and equipment areas will ease their learning curve, they will develop a comfort zone and advance from there.

Exact maps to clans are needed, Clans also need a sign posted outside their door with exact cabal entry requirements.

With a low pbase and limited immortal interactions(time zones ect) we need more automation, cabals should auto induct if you meet the requirements of the clan. Cabal promotions should be automated up to Trusted, Imm approval for E and L. That way people can just play the game and advance at their own pace while still being able to advance. Also, I think every race should have 3-6 (default descriptions) at character creation. This will allow people to try out new characters at a faster pace, NO RP points given for a default description and people wont get stuck at 15 or 30 because of no immortals on or their personal desc keeps getting denied for one reason or another (spelling, length, etc etc).

2c :)

UC

8 minutes ago, Mali said:

Personally I don't play because the best rewards require interacting with the forum, which kneecaps my ability to randomize ip through vpn. Since I don't trust this immstaff not to be punitive against me I lose all privacy by seeking in game rewards through ooc channels.** I am for a free mud world and the tendency of this staff towards a disciplinarian and permission-based approach is a non starter for me**.

1. What? I'm curious as to why you believe we're out to get you.

2. How are we toward a 'disciplinarian and permission-based' approach? I'm genuinely curious about this too.

idk, i piss the staff off all the time, but they still approve my  stuff.  Hell Erelei and I are usually locked in some debate on prayer forum where I keep calling his code buggy, lol.

D

Railed.

But Still interesting. lol