Locked Keeping up with the times,

I lurk on the forum mostly out of morbid curiosity + habit but I stopped playing a while ago.

Muds are clearly not dead, there are other ones out there thriving, so why is this one dying/dead?

I can name a few problems I see but I don't really have any solutions.

1. There seem to be as many Imms as mortal players, if not more, but I rarely ever saw any Imms visible and hardly had any Imm interaction when I played. Players like immortal interaction.

2. There is often nothing to do in game. When there are things to do it is often repetitive and uninteresting things.

3. There is huge inconsistency in getting qstuff/caballed/RP rewards. Add #1 and #2 to this and it can create a lot of player frustration.

4. Power gaming is way too prevalent and rewarded, makes the game unfun and less diverse.

5. Some of the best players here are complete douchebags, makes the game very unfun for others.

Other random things I am against but are probably not at all related to player decline.

-Wimpy is bullshit and needs to be removed.

-It is illegal to use emotes to punish trigger users. I think this is a bullshit rule. I know for a fact that some of the "most skilled" players here have intricate trigger systems they use to win PKs against fleeing opponents. Since there is no way to stop or punish this, players should be allowed to use whatever means available to counter this cheap tactic.

I find myself in an odd position concerning this game. On the one hand I love it, but on the other I vowed never to play again and I am sort of rooting for it's condeath.

So lets capitalize. I believe change, the need to explore, and discover what has changed is one of the keys to reclaiming our lost brothers.

Change things. Mix it up.

For instance;

What if we update cabal skills across the board, give every cabal some newer high rank skills, and lower the rank of the existing skills people are always complaining that they have to wait too long for. The lowest rank cabal skills could then drop completely into the hands of clan members. Clan Skills would be a new concept, clan skills would be something a character could retain even if they were removed from the cabal. I would add a special clan skill available only to former cabal members, to inspire self discovery. Its a small concept, a big change, and hours of in game research to learn completely, lets offer new discoveries to old adventurers and see what happens.

We also see a surge of old players during the Madness. While I usually skip the Madness myself, it has always been very popular. What if we create a second Holiday for our world. Perhaps a more RP heavy holiday, War of the Gods/Rise of the Believers Day, Perhaps a set of Games and a tournament.

Of course, I could once again bring up that a neutral q-thing would also entice some old players to rejoin us. However, until we understand and commit to creating and avenue to overcome the protection issues around neutrals we can never have neutrals of greater power. That said, as a neutral q-race, we could create LEGENDS. (let your imagination carry you away)

8 hours ago, Wade said:

You don't think the difference between black-steel,chimera,tainted etc and a godsuit is too big? Just compare the stat lines, there is a huge difference.

Do you really think that a suit you con obtain in less than a minute should be comparable to a suit which you need months to gather?

8 hours ago, Wade said:

Instead of dismissing what multiple people are saying and believing nothing but yourself, you need to make an effort to listen. You have gaunticles here, a recent player who no longer plays (which is the prime candidate for who you want to retain) telling you exactly why he feels the way he does, listen to him, work with him, ask him leading questions to gain an insight into why.

Mmm okay.... lets see what he says ----

14 hours ago, Gaunticles said:

The reason why I have stopped playing is that I'm pretty bad at PK.

I like this guy, he's very honest :)

14 hours ago, Gaunticles said:

Losing gear is a very negative experience that everybody will eventually happen to them. It's just that if your very bad a PK it tends to happen more often to those people.

That sounds pretty logical. Lets see what more he has to say ----

14 hours ago, Gaunticles said:

I'm not suggesting we get rid of PVP or GEAR or Roleplay but there should be a solution to make it so it's not debilitating or negative experience as it seems.

But we have such a mechanism already. It's called moderate tier....

Oh wait, you talk about moderate tier yourself:

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I guarantee you'd see more moderates if baseline black-steel gear gave you 40hit/dam and 20 saves which might lower frustrations, and lower frustration means less people quitting.

Those stats you described are perfectly achievable and even easy to go above with an EQ set which has 0 rares in it and takes 10 minutes to gather.

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A lot of competitive games would disagree with you: CSGO, DOTA, Starcraft. They all have no form of "progression" besides your skill level.

You are comparing a first person shooter, a MOBA and a real-time strategy game to an RPG.

It's a completely different style of games so it's not very fair comparison, don't you think? If you are going to compare FL to a video game, then try with WoW or Diablo. And even then it's not a very fair comparison because in those video games you obtain better gear by grinding. In FL you obtain better gear with your PK skills. Hence why I play FL in the first place.

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Whats your answer then? You've awfully quick to shoot down many ideas but hardly ever offer any yourself.

I don't offer ideas because it's rude and tactless to give suggestions and ideas to a person who is not looking for such. It's only going to offend and insult them.

After all this game has a staff team. I am sure that if they need my opinion they will not hesitate to ask.

On top of many of the posts and ideas I like. It feels like FL has intentionally slowed down the game. Though I understand the reasons why I also feel there are drawbacks.

Not to reiterate my gripes over and over but...

As a noob I remember that dying wasn't such a big issue because I knew that my cabal mate had either stored spares in the cabal already or was going to get revenge for me and get the gear from a cabal enemy. People played more. People were more immediately rewarded for there actions. I knew that even though I died I could get comparable equipment fairly quickly.

Nowadays you have decked players who don't play much, don't want to take much risk. And I don't blame them. Takes weeks to find a piece of equipment. Perhaps a month for the purge.

With how hard it is to get eq after losing it I don't blame the not so well established players from not taking on the big boys. I mean why should they? You can be T and take out all the decked E's and L's in the world and you'll still have to wait over months for E. Send all the notes you want, rp all you want you have to wait months or close to a year for that title change, special item, noble app, tattoo.

I used to be excited coming home to find out happened in the game. Which badass was just defeated? Who's the new top Monk or Cleric in the lands? Did the Warmasters just get the advantage over the Savants or vice versa? Now I could not log on for weeks to a month and see little has changed.

After so much time in 2.0 we have people who just log out when facing there banes or other mechanics that encourage people to log out. I still don't understand why we have the same ones that have been around forever? No matter how they're rationalized players WILL still disagree with them and simply not play it or against it. i.e. , Thieves pry/plant ease, mana shield vs malforms, mals and equipment, consumables/nymph hearts, and so on. Though I'm very happy to hear that some HAVE been addressed. Assassinate, Fire's vs invokers, Giant bashing, etc. But it took so long for them to happen.

Crazy thing is that we are GIVEN tons ideas to try to make the game better. I don't see the issue with trying things out, utilizing polls, and either keeping them if they are a success or reverting changes back if they aren't. Like how Erelei did recently. Was I the only one that noticed immediate spike in players after very popular issues were resolved?  Ulmsundorn and Watcher rp love? Tribunal/Knight standing up to Syndicate/Nexus? Ash cloak removal?

In conclusion think we should place more value on a players time. Acknowledge that Immortals should be able to do the same and make changes. I'm one who doesn't mind converting to a paid mud.

54 minutes ago, f0xx said:

I don't offer ideas because it's rude and tactless to give suggestions and ideas to a person who is not looking for such. It's only going to offend and insult them.

After all this game has a staff team. I am sure that if they need my opinion they will not hesitate to ask.

The purpose of this discussion is to come up with ideas and find a solution. Is it just me your worried about offending or everybody? 

Please on my account don't hold anything back that could possibly help the community.

3 minutes ago, Gaunticles said:

The purpose of this discussion is to come up with ideas and find a solution. Is just me your worried about offending or everybody? 

Please on my account don't hold anything back that could possibly help the community.

Maybe he's right and its not our place.

8 hours ago, Erelei said:

1. What? I'm curious as to why you believe we're out to get you.

2. How are we toward a 'disciplinarian and permission-based' approach? I'm genuinely curious about this too.

1. Frankly, this is a perception I have had over multiple staff regimes. It is no different now. I know that we are tracked. The idea that resolution of plots, seeking RP points, and other in-game actions are mediated by OOC interactions is a systems flaw whether it is actively abused or not. Someone cannot get the most out of this game without forum interaction. The game should exist independent of the forum and all the glory and rewards should be easily obtainable within the MUD itself.

2. Cabal imms are still gatekeepers to world change, treaty change, faction promotions, upper level cabal promotions, qraces, restrings, special armors, rp points, clan creations, secret clan induction, and all end-game high level content.

FL at its strongest ideal in my mind would be a player-driven adventure creation kit. I'm tired of asking permission or going through the gates to get to end-game content. Give us the world back! 

Keep coding... Keep RPing... but DO give back cabals to players, stop controlling treaties and promotions, and enable code-based mechanisms for everything. Everything! Including RP points and qraces.

Short of looking out for cheating and being there to add flavor and RP to the game, I see no reason to keep imms in their gatekeeper role. 

In summary, if all the IMMS just went up and quit, the game should still fully function as long as server is up. 

We appreciate what you do... and we want you there in the role of true Gods... anthropomorphic manifestations of world religion and values... not as mommy and daddy imm.

Imm-mediated content is a design flaw. <-period. ellipsis...

27 minutes ago, Mali said:

1. Frankly, this is a perception I have had over multiple staff regimes. It is no different now. I know that we are tracked. The idea that resolution of plots, seeking RP points, and other in-game actions are mediated by OOC interactions is a systems flaw whether it is actively abused or not. Someone cannot get the most out of this game without forum interaction. The game should exist independent of the forum and all the glory and rewards should be easily obtainable within the MUD itself.

2. Cabal imms are still gatekeepers to world change, treaty change, faction promotions, upper level cabal promotions, qraces, restrings, special armors, rp points, clan creations, secret clan induction, and all end-game high level content.

FL at its strongest ideal in my mind would be a player-driven adventure creation kit. I'm tired of asking permission or going through the gates to get to end-game content. Give us the world back! 

Keep coding... Keep RPing... but DO give back cabals to players, stop controlling treaties and promotions, and enable code-based mechanisms for everything. Everything! Including RP points and qraces.

Short of looking out for cheating and being there to add flavor and RP to the game, I see no reason to keep imms in their gatekeeper role. 

In summary, if all the IMMS just went up and quit, the game should still fully function as long as server is up. 

We appreciate what you do... and we want you there in the role of true Gods... anthropomorphic manifestations of world religion and values... not as mommy and daddy imm.

Imm-mediated content is a design flaw. <-period. ellipsis...

You said it perfectly.  And this is a huge reason I have never bothered to come back.  My last two characters at FL some few years ago spent countless hours waiting for approval for things, writing journals noone read, and noone made an effort to interact with me based on those journal entries.  It was like this giant grind for RP points and stuff I wanted to achieve past lvl 50.  The whole idea of the IMM as gatekeeper to everything cool about this mud is a tired old notion, and with player numbers in the gutter - needs to go.  I might consider logging in if it were easier to actually DO anything in an environment with only 2-3 online and in my experience a never visible immstaff.

1 hour ago, Telufial said:

You said it perfectly.  And this is a huge reason I have never bothered to come back.  My last two characters at FL some few years ago spent countless hours waiting for approval for things, writing journals noone read, and noone made an effort to interact with me based on those journal entries.  It was like this giant grind for RP points and stuff I wanted to achieve past lvl 50.  The whole idea of the IMM as gatekeeper to everything cool about this mud is a tired old notion, and with player numbers in the gutter - needs to go.  I might consider logging in if it were easier to actually DO anything in an environment with only 2-3 online and in my experience a never visible immstaff.

For as many IMMs as we do have, I've seen far too few visible on the who list.

I also believe removing the gatekeeper duty of imms would be greatly freeing and perhaps even cathartic to the staff. When people interact with you wanting something out of it, it changes the purity of the interaction. No hand outs means Immortal immersion in their character role and more time to code/build/enhance the game world.

I've always thought imm controlled cabals strangle Rp. 

Theres no point trying to make in game relationships to work out trade deals, though you still can do it, it's a mostly futile effort. 

Even things like the promotion apps you'd have to send would give you insight into other people that you might not share a timezone with. 

I'd much rather the imms spend time controlling my charmies or controlling what I'm hunting and having to chase them down or a few of them group up and try to kill me. It makes the world feel alive. Control kesrick, make him come to town and warn people in person about the ferals on the horizon. 

Control a troll and have it track people to tell them about the schism that had appeared. 

I hardly ever get any imm interaction, in fact I had my charmie controlled for the first time the other week and even though it was a short interaction, it made a huge difference.

If you join the Knights and you are the only member. CONGRATS, YOU'RE THE KING! 

Auto-induct after 10 clan quests

Give every cabal a leader, immediately... based on seniority or mad skills. The rest can be worked out through player votes. Knights voted the king down? Long live the king...

Auto-leader. Leader chooses elders and L and E approves to trusted. Anyone from M and up can vote leader down with each rank accounting for X variable votes. 

Want to be a vamp or psi or lich or demon? No waiting. Do the quest and you are in.

RP Points? You get them by questing, and by submitting logs In-game to the tavern story wall which other players can vote for point total in pre-set increments of 2.. 4.. 6... 8...10. After 4 to 5 votes by players with distinct ips as matched by the system, the correct amount of points are applied, including 0 if the log sucks. You also get .5 rp point per real hour logged. I played 800 hours? I'm going to enjoy those 400 RP points and I deserve them.

Treaties and arrangements? Up to the players. Total freedom. No cabal wars are pre-set. No hard-coded vendettas. 

No dcheck.

Any character can restring at birth. Code in new command: Report. Syntax: Report Grendarr he did a restring to something inappropriate <---shifts imm role from approval to keeping the boundary in tact 

Rebuild clan system to mirror perk system. Requires 2 players to start

Clan Create [ Mighty Minotaurs] Grendarr

Mali has suggested you become a founder of Mighty Minotaurs. Type Clan Create Mighty Minotaurs to confirm. 

Select from this list of unique special clan abilities. All of them should be equal in coolness to the reaver/shepherd group

1. perk 1  2. perk 2  3. perk 3

If any system gets abused... fine... but it is our abuse and we can shape it to be better.  The shadow of abuse is not a good reason not to do something. Open the sandbox up ...

The only thing I totally disagree with @Mali is the .5 rp points per hour.

Thats not why they were implemented or designed. Their was an outcry from the Pbase for people to stop silent killing/non rping. These have fixed that.

You sitting in a no-where room for 20 hours a week is not RP. 

The rest of it.... Interesting.

4 hours ago, Fireman said:

For as many IMMs as we do have, I've seen far too few visible on the who list.

We try man. But I can't be visible and controlling mobs for people - something I try to do as much as I have time to. 

3 hours ago, Wade said:

I hardly ever get any imm interaction, in fact I had my charmie controlled for the first time the other week and even though it was a short interaction, it made a huge difference.

;)

4 hours ago, Fireman said:

For as many IMMs as we do have, I've seen far too few visible on the who list.

I am visible many of the times I am on main port.

Several times I am just chilling in Maelbrim commons, sittin' on my throne. See lots of people walk by. Some give glances or bows. Even fewer stop for a chat. Still do it often, though.

Most of the time anyone tries to drum up some RP with me it's while I'm already heavily invested into a few other RP situations. I connect from my phone most of the time, as it were, because I don't feel like my current work schedule should mean that I don't make time for the players here.

So yeah. Kinda odd to see that. But perhaps its just because my times are weird, and people are busy. I get it.

I'm not sure how many IMMs you think we have..

But as AFAIK, currently, we have: Ulmus, Lloth, Anume, Acele, Zoichan, and me.

And I'm rarely visible because when I do find time to connect, I'm coding.

As to the rest of the above, standby for comments.

Edited to add: "active" imms, we do have several who have not found the time to IMM, are still on staff, and are currently more busy with real life things than in game things.

3 hours ago, Mali said:

You also get .5 rp point per real hour logged.

People want more roleplay.

Then they suggest passive income for RP points.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

That's such a small amount of Rp points that I don't think it matters though. 

We're talking like 160 hours to get anything. 

Small price to pay to have people actually in game. 

Just to clarify I'm neutral on that idea, before you prepare a retort =P

1 hour ago, Wade said:

That's such a small amount of Rp points that I don't think it matters though. 

We're talking like 160 hours to get anything. 

Small price to pay to have people actually in game. 

Just to clarify I'm neutral on that idea, before you prepare a retort =P

I see what you're saying. But RP points arent a 'passive' income. They are a reward for people enriching an environment. 

You can already earn passive RP points helping people rank ;)

8 hours ago, Mali said:

 

Want to be a vamp or psi or lich or demon? No waiting. Do the quest and you are in.

I have suggested this a few times.  

I hate that i can only have 1 qthing at a time.   The quest classes should just be remorts.  You hit 50 then choose to remort, or not to remort...the sometimes multiple week wait at 50 is so frustrating, and boring.  

Yeah we would have more vamps, and crusaders, demons and avatars. ..but why the hell not.  The undead link would actually serve a purpose.   

Then instead of revamping classes.  Make more remort quest classes....