Well, to be fair, when Volgathras asked if people wanted an automated demon quest, he was told pretty unanimously by the players that the current method was preferred. And I like to think I have been pretty timely with my app approvals (noble/royal and demon).
Locked Keeping up with the times,
i do not believe that discussion was in lue of being completely automated. As in you walk up do the quest and are done.
it was comparing him approving them, thenr you getting dropped into a quest like psi.
I would be open to designing an automated demon quest, as a test platform. But that would need to be discussed up in immland. Not my decision to make.
Let me make clear that the ideas are just examples of a system that would function without direct intervention, as it were, based on the premise that any path in game should be achievable as a result of play. I can't think of any other game that requires so much hand holding to access content.
automated everything not just demon.
qrace automated at 30 you just walk up.
make all qclass at 50 a remort option.
3 minutes ago, Mali said:
Let me make clear that the ideas are just examples of a system that would function without direct intervention, as it were, based on the premise that any path in game should be achievable as a result of play. I can't think of any other game that requires so much hand holding to access content.
I'm not surprised. One thing happens in game that a player doesn't like, and we're stormed on the Prayer Forum about it.
We didn't make the game this way. The playerbase wanted it this way.
We want people punished for PK'ing and not having a reason (or at least one that I can't see or understand) - This is the most common thing that I see. Every PK (nearly) is retorted on prayer "why did this guy kill me? I don't believe it should have happened. We need to talk about this," etc, etc.
This goes for a lot of what happens in game. I've been a huge advocate of just letting the 'restrictions' go, but the player base continues to refuse and/or shows they're not ready.
I think you let the minority rule the gambit and lose all the decent players because of it.
"you" being the proverbial staff over time btw.
Care to explain? (since it's definitely not the minority complaining a lot. It's the majority of players. I'm not saying complaining is bad, either.)
Edited
eh ya know, I have to admit I have no visibility. The staff has all of that.
Maybe if you just said look, no more complaints. If you are dieing a bunch, apply for the buff. Spend your time enforcing align restrictions, and helping weaker players, while unlocking all the end game content.
I don't see it as a staff behavior issue or even specific to this entire staff. Philosophically it is about power relationships. I think immortal oversight could be preserved via rules enforcement and content development (coding and building).
Preparing for a transition where the game could function for an independent player would be a great example of good stewardship.
But it doesn't have to be radicalized. A step by step approach would be preferred, as mentioned by others above, starting with freeing up cabal systems and qraces and then moving forward. Destroy the vendettas and let cabals mold based on their membership. Do these and I'll make a character tomorrow.
Imms develop, players play. Of course there is overlap, but it's a matter of degree.
Edited
everything in this game now that the pbase has shrunk a bit is even more about end game. So lets let the end game flow!
- unlock all qclass/race so you can just go do the quest if you meet the req.
make vamp a lvl 50 remort and not a lvl 30 class. 2. buff shaman, make them q class 3. buff healers, same, q class 4. druids I dont think need much of one, but hell make them in line with q classes as well.
make cabal entry automated, you hit 50 while in a clan you can run a quest to join the cabal once you meet some mechanical requirements like clan quests numbers, or a pk or two.
- make number of clan quests youve done visible to you.
Make cabal promotions more fluid.
- 5 hour timer instead of 10
- auto promote to trusted if no other high ranks
carry this out to E. Make L an election process. Or if suitable a duel process for WM.
Invent MORE q classes, q races.
Make Tattoos a quest for each religion, visit your shrine do the quest get the tattoo for your devotion. Everyone could have one, why is this so locked away...it is fun!
make edges selectable at 10, 20, 30, 50. with one of the new necklaces given at 50.
- You can lock Edges that allow people to get extra damage VS qraces so that those races cant have any of them.
This would incentivise people to play a "basic" warrior for example and go about slaying qraces.
RP point system is awesome in some ways, but really its just a huge time sink.
IMMS then, enforce aligns, enforce religion dedication especially for those with tattoos, watch for abuse of course.
Make Cabal gear owner only.
Things like Kreyis should always be in game, bring more of these.
- Reward RP with tangible things, like owner only items more often.
- All this owner only stuff will get people to stop being such bitches about losing some gear.
You make these kinds of changes, the ones that can be implemented immediately, as a test. let it run a month! I bet you get WAY more participation. Half the reason people pm me and say they gave up on this or that is because of the time commitment.
There are things that can, and should be, automated.
Consistency in cabal induction and promotion times has been a huge huge issue that keeps coming back. Considering we can track someone's activity, RP (via RP points) and PK (via PK kills and deaths), I honestly see no reason why this such important part of the endgame is left in the hands of humans (who are biased, emotional, have limited amount of time, get sick, die and so on...)
I don't think Qstuff should be automated though. You basically want to make them be like Druids. It will take away the mysticism and prestige they carry.
I don't like how the RP giving process is tied to the forum either, BUT the whole RP system was huge step forward, regarding RP and the improvement of the general atmosphere. It's not a perfect system, sure, but it's better than what we (didn't) have in the past.
2 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
everything in this game now that the pbase has shrunk a bit is even more about end game. So lets let the end game flow!
- unlock all qclass/race so you can just go do the quest if you meet the req.
make vamp a lvl 50 remort and not a lvl 30 class. 2. buff shaman, make them q class 3. buff healers, same, q class 4. druids I dont think need much of one, but hell make them in line with q classes as well.
make cabal entry automated, you hit 50 while in a clan you can run a quest to join the cabal once you meet some mechanical requirements like clan quests numbers, or a pk or two.
- make number of clan quests youve done visible to you.
Make cabal promotions more fluid.
- 5 hour timer instead of 10
- auto promote to trusted if no other high ranks
carry this out to E. Make L an election process. Or if suitable a duel process for WM.
Invent MORE q classes, q races.
Make Tattoos a quest for each religion, visit your shrine do the quest get the tattoo for your devotion. Everyone could have one, why is this so locked away...it is fun!
make edges selectable at 10, 20, 30, 50. with one of the new necklaces given at 50.
- You can lock Edges that allow people to get extra damage VS qraces so that those races cant have any of them.
This would incentivise people to play a "basic" warrior for example and go about slaying qraces.
RP point system is awesome in some ways, but really its just a huge time sink.
IMMS then, enforce aligns, enforce religion dedication especially for those with tattoos, watch for abuse of course.
Make Cabal gear owner only.
Things like Kreyis should always be in game, bring more of these.
- Reward RP with tangible things, like owner only items more often.
- All this owner only stuff will get people to stop being such bitches about losing some gear.
You make these kinds of changes, the ones that can be implemented immediately, as a test. let it run a month! I bet you get WAY more participation. Half the reason people pm me and say they gave up on this or that is because of the time commitment.
So you basically want to destroy everything I like in this game.
Nice move.
foxx, your vague attacks are so non productive....im sorry...but I touched on automating the entire end game, how does this destroy anything but the gate..
of course you would hate all this too. I think in our community you are the most against any change anyone ever suggests and you just wave your hand and say "thats crap, I hate it"
I, personally, take issue with it being said that there is bias in cabal promotions. I don't care at all who plays who, and feel I do a very good job of separating myself from my position.
I have actually banned and lost close friends because of this. The immortal position is a job, not a platform for abuse. These aren't the zhokril days.
Wow, this is a really good and constructive thread. I pretty much agree with Mali entirely, and were some of those changes to be implemented - taking away the gate keeper function of all the FUN stuff in this game. I bet you would see a dramatic increase in player numbers from returning vets. And I will tell you right now, I log in every once and a while and the number one killer for me is seeing 2 other people logged in. Thats NOT fun. That means you have 2 people to potentially PK, or noone to group with to rank, or 2 people to RP with. I might as well be on AIM in a chatroom. The other huge factor that turns me away is the damn waiting game. I have a family now, and responsibilities, and my play time is limited. When I was playing in highschool in 1.0, I had hours and hours to sink into a character and really develop it. But now I don't, I get 10 hours a week or something. If I have to wait 50 - 100 hours to do anything worth while, get promotions in my cabal, get inducted into a cabal, sit at level 30 waiting for a qrace/class approval... i'm going to go spend my time doing something more productive. I think the goal here should be enticing former players back. This brings the player counts up, and in turn makes MORE people want to play again. I left FL for Carrionfields for good about 3 years ago, and at the time they had 20-30 folks online at most times. I am now witnessing CF go through the same death throws as FL. And for the exact same reason. People don't want to waste copious amounts of time for IMM hand outs. The gatekeeper syndrome is killing CF too, and now when I log in there I can count on about 5-10 people at most. I don't even bother to log in anymore :) I would love to see FL get back on it's feet and come back home and romp around with some of my old friends here. It's good to see Mali lurking around and I know there are a bunch of others lurking too... waiting for someone to do something to save what was once a home away from home :)
You are right, I am usually against changes, considering most of the changes that are suggested are changes for the sake of change, or suggested by people who have little idea how the game works.
This game is like a book to me. A really long book, which I enjoy reading and don't want to end. The sooner it ends, the sooner I will be disappointed.
When I roll a character, I roll it with the idea that it's a long term investment. I like seeing how my characters develops and grows with time. How it struggles to achieve every little piece of EQ, every RP point, every cabal promotion.
I like this game because those things are not easy to obtain, and when you obtain them, you've achieved something, which not everyone can do.
I am all for automation, but your suggestion is not automation. It is giving stuff away, for free.
Just look at this:
50 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
unlock all qclass/race so you can just go do the quest if you meet the req.
Giving Qstuff for free.
50 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
auto promote to trusted if no other high ranks
- carry this out to E. Make L an election process. Or if suitable a duel process for WM.
Giving promotions for free.
50 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
Make Tattoos a quest for each religion, visit your shrine do the quest get the tattoo for your devotion. Everyone could have one
Giving tattoos for free.
50 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:
make edges selectable at 10, 20, 30, 50. with one of the new necklaces given at 50.
Giving edges and necklaces for free!
What you suggest is not automation.
You want to give EVERYTHING away, for FREE!
It will take no effort to achieve those things. And since it will take no effort, everyone will get everything, and then they will get bored, lose the sense of achievement, and leave. This game's biggest ace up its sleeve is its mystery, and no matter how many people criticise it for its flaws, keep in mind that it has been running for 17 years! And the same people keep coming back over and over, because there is always something they haven't achieved.
Once again, what you suggest is not automation. It's giving stuff away. The only thing you didn't suggest, is giving every DKN a malform after 10 hours ingame time.
I don't like stuff to be given to me. I like to work for them. Those closer to me know that I have a little saying when it comes to DKNs, it goes like that: "The worse things that can happen to a DKN is to have two full malforms." --- because then you lose all interest in playing.
PS. It's really funny because I suggested exactly [url=https://theforsakenlands.com/community/topic/38564-the-real-halloween-madness-poll]this[/url] for Halloween Madness and you were one of the strongest opposition of the idea.
Edited
1 hour ago, Kyzarius said:
of course you would hate all this too. I think in our community you are the most against any change anyone ever suggests and you just wave your hand and say "thats crap, I hate it"
Maybe some day he'll understand that its not just about a single type of player.
I will say that I am not for Qraces/classes being automated. I DO enjoy that aspect of RP with the IMMs of the chosen religion. I think it adds a flare to it, but I would like to see a work around to the wait time that some people experience.
Having been tattooed twice(I'm counting Belderon's.) I enjoyed the RP I got from it. That being said, Volgathras made the first one feel so special.. where did he go btw? Just up and left..
Edited