Minotaur Charge

Here is a snippet clearly showing three rounds of lag. He is able to slam, and haymaker before I get in my slam. My slam was typed a split second after his I had hit my slam macro the moment he landed the slam. You can read the whole log seeing time passed and tell he was not enlarged for the fight.

Desaram: [===|===|===|===]

<1098/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps> You slam into Azzar, knocking him senseless!

Your bodyslam injures Azzar.

Azzar has a few scratches.

Desaram: [===|===|===|===]

<1098/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps>

Your rays MUTILATE Azzar!

Your air blast mauls Azzar.

Azzar parries your attack.

Azzar parries your attack.

You parry a dark serpent's attack.

Azzar's wrath MASSACRES you!

Azzar's pain DISMEMBERS you!

Azzar has some small wounds and bruises.

Desaram: [===|===|===|=--]

<970/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps>

Your rays decimate Azzar!

Your air blast mauls Azzar.

Your rays devastate Azzar!

Azzar dodges your attack.

A dark serpent's bite hits you.

You dodge Azzar's attack.

You parry Azzar's attack.

Azzar has some small wounds and bruises.

Desaram: [===|===|===|=--]

<958/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps>

hay

You throw a mighty haymaker at Azzar's jaws.

Your punch injures Azzar.

Azzar falls back, stunned by the mighty blow.

Azzar slowly floats to the ground.

Azzar has some small wounds and bruises.

Desaram: [===|===|===|=--]

<958/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps>

Azzar parries your attack.

Azzar parries your attack.

Azzar dodges your attack.

Azzar parries your attack.

You parry a dark serpent's attack.

Azzar's wrath DISMEMBERS you!

You parry Azzar's attack.

You dodge Azzar's attack.

You dodge Azzar's attack.

You dodge Azzar's attack.

Azzar has some small wounds and bruises.

Desaram: [===|===|===|=--]

<897/1178hp 450/450m 404/442mv><45480 tnl><7559 gold><711 cps>

Azzar knocks you senseless with a full on bodyslam!

Azzar's bodyslam *** DEMOLISHES *** you!

Azzar has some small wounds and bruises.

I really don't see why people are having so many problems with Charge. I find it rather easy to deal with charge with any class. I'm not going to name the skills/spells, but there are tons that help/negate charge completely. Figure it out, I did.

Zhokril's point is absolutely the winner of this thread. On top of the fact that lag is not simply "two rounds," you've also got the fact that different players have different quality of internet connections.

I don't think there's anything wrong with minotaur charge. Slinore dies plenty, and there hasn't been a "near-invincible" minotaur warrior since Lamah. Everyone here has adapted to the mentality of "I died to this a couple of times, it must be overpowered," which has resulted in a number of completely unnecessary changes to appease a whiny playerbase.

Learn how to use more than one tactic, learn how to use all of your resources, and you will do just fine. Otherwise, you'll keep dying to charge happy minotaurs.

Edit: Also, Kyzarius, there's no reason for you to be getting charged via trigger - which is why I doubt that Slinore is, in fact, using a trigger. If you were using ALL of your resources, he wouldn't be able to. Fight smarter or die harder.

You cannot be sure how much your body slam lagged him.

It could have been 1 or 1,5. It sure was not 2 rounds.

You might have bodyslammed right before the round, meaning that your lag would only wear off right before the third round happens. Since the time between rounds is still a bit he had time to escape and charge you again.

There is a difference between invincibility and unfair advantage. And Mino charge is quite an unfair mechanic.

There is a reason Paladins lost it, and Minotaurs were singled to Berserkers in the previous versions of FL.

Mino charge isn't like charge with any other class, the 'charger' does not have a cooldown period, so its easy to laglock, its also unblockable lag, or like Kyz said, get 500 ac and they might miss.

Edit: But I do agree with Evan too, I haven't had much trouble fighting minotaurs. I use the force

Seems like you are saying a different thing now (in regards to the latest log). I never said the victim can't be lagged more than 2 rounds. I don't think anyone is under the impression that bodyslam lag is capped at 2 rounds for the victim.

Why not keep almost everything the same, just make lag work the same as mounted charge. So, minotaurs can still charge for the extra damage every two rounds, but lag only every 2 ticks or whatever it is.

Why not keep almost everything the same' date=' just make lag work the same as mounted charge. So, minotaurs can still charge for the extra damage every two rounds, but lag only every 2 ticks or whatever it is.[/quote']

The soluttion is simple...

Add a charge time = to all the other charge timers in the game..

You can't take away what makes the minotaur...a charging bull!!

What I'm suggesting is they can still charge/flee/charge for full damage (unlike paladin charge) with any weapon if that's how it is now? but they can only lag every 2 ticks (just like paladin charge).

It only makes sense if you're fighting a creature known to charge, you're going to be prepared for it after the first one. Maybe we can change it so only if you're wearing something red can a minotaur repeatedly charge-lag you

While I agree that something needs to be done with mino charge, I also agree with Bali.

Also Beer's idea is not bad.

Or something in between - 3 rounds of lag with 0 hours timer.

But the current situation leaves way too much room for abuse.

For those who think that mino charge as it currently exists is perfectly fine - did you support the change of paladin charge from lagging every time to having a timer? Why or why not?

I ask this because I view the two situations as fairly equivalent (if anything, mino charge is a good deal more powerful). Paladin charge does a bit more damage from the charge itself, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen a paladin capable of charging and, through charge damage + melee, pulling 2-300hp from a prepped target while both are lagged since paladin charge is limited to a single weapon type that doesn't allow dual wielding.

Now, paladins are certainly far more survivable than any mino class, so they shouldn't have that same level of offensive melee power that a mino does. But does a mino warrior deserve the same offensive benefits of charge that a mino zerk does, given that a warrior is also far more defensive than a zerk? A zerk that just charges constantly risks being out-meleed by a good number of possible opponents (warriors, rangers, dks, monks, blms, even necros and bmgs - all of these are capable of dealing greater melee damage than a zerk who is using no skills beyond charge, pre-fight buffs, and weapons) - a warrior that just charges constantly does not, or at least, has a great deal fewer enemies that will simply out-melee him. The warrior also does not get trapped in combat by his class's defining skill, nor does he risk that skill engaging automatically and trapping him in combat when he doesn't want to be.

To put it simply - zerks have enough defensive and survival problems that I have no problem with the added offensive power that mino charge gives them (and it is actually less useful for a zerk to have mino charge than it is for a warrior to have it)... and to be honest, I can't recall any mino zerks that really dominated handily, as most successful zerks (rare as they are) seem to be ogres.

Also, while there are certainly plenty of counters to this tactic, the margin for error on using them is very small. Encountering this kind of powerful and very difficult to defend against tactic is the kind of thing that gets a newb extremely frustrated when they keep dying to the same thing over and over again because they haven't figured out the split-second timing needed to hit him before he can flee/charge again.

Put on a 2 tic timer but double or better the charge damage. As Ototh I hardly ever charged folks and did very well as far as PK is concerned. I would not say it is a be all end all skill.

Best way I see is to simply place an equal timer on it to the paladin charge's, and if that's deemed as weakening it too much the damage could be upped to equal the paladin charge's as well. That would turn it into a very strong opener/finisher (which is how I've always seen the charge skill as being intended), but not something you could rely on throughout the fight as a primary tactic.

Put on a 2 tic timer but double or better the charge damage. I would not say it is a be all end all skill.

How would minos be any different than other races from a charge point of view if we put the same restrictions? Also, no skill is a be all end all skill, the problem is how such skill incorporates with other abilities of the combo (class, cabal, EQ).

The mino bonus is a very unique, well thought and defining for the race, taking it away will hurt the overall quality of the game environment. It doesn't need to be taken away, but only slightly tweaked.

Also, paladins can deal just as much, if not more damage since their charge doesn't simply do more, but it does A LOT more damage than minos and they can combine it with a wrath and of course lets not forget the melee output, so pali, your whole argument seems void to me.

The fact that zerkers need different playstyle (some would say are weaker) compared to warriors, is not a problem of the race but of the class.

Currently chase+charge has less lag than flee+move which can effectively laglock a lot of combos which are not supposed to be laglocked by warriors. Yes, there are many tactics to avoid it but they are not easy to implement, just as there are a lot of tactics to not get laglocked without a protective shield if you are a c/c. Not to mention that a lot of those counter tactics can be countered.

smirk

The point is, should minos keep this ability to lock opponents who haven't specially prepared for the chase+charge trigger tactic or should mino charge be changed so it is still better than normal charge but not so easy to abuse?

A paladin cannot charge and wrath you before you have a chance to flee from the charge - I have played enough paladins to know this as a near-certainty. Wrath also is limited in effectiveness to evils, and even then is savable for much of the damage. The paladin charge does not even twice the damage of a normal charge - I've seen plenty of people hit demos with a charge, paladins hit oblits (check logs with sanc and you'll see most people charging for dismembers/massacres and paladins for mangles)... this is not that big of a difference.

Paladin melee output is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than a minotaur's, particularly when charging, because when charging the paladin is limited to using a polearm for its charge bonuses (else it's charge does not lag 2 rounds and does not do bonus damage - also, the paladin must be mounted) - which limits it to, at best, 3 attacks a round with one of the more moderately offensive weapons, compared to the minotaur's at best 8 attacks a round with whatever weapons he can use.

If you want to dismiss my argument, you need to try harder.

EDIT: The funny thing is... when paladins could charge like minotaurs can now, even with the lesser damage potential for most situations, it was deemed too powerful for paladins due to their defensive abilities - and I agree with that assessment. I think it also applies to minotaur warriors - I do NOT think it applies to minotaur berserkers. I want mino zerks to keep the enhanced charge and all its benefits - I just don't think mino warriors should have it.

I don't care how many paladins you've played, that does not give you the right to lie:

"A paladin cannot charge and wrath you before you have a chance to flee from the charge"

Saddled atop the Goliath, you charge Grum at full speed!
Grum yells 'Help! someone just charged into me!'
Your charge attack MASSACRES Grum!
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

com flame
Grum dodges your attack.
'Hawk Slayer' the Long Arm of the Commissar's smash misses an armored Knight.
Grum's thorns MUTILATE an armored Knight!
Grum's thorns MUTILATE an armored Knight!
Grum's fury misses an armored Knight.
Grum's fury MUTILATES an armored Knight!
An armored Knight's flesh is seared by the flaming the Master Forgeman's Great Hammer adorned
with a glowing ember.
Grum's flaming bite scratches an armored Knight.
An armored Knight's arrows maul Grum.
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

The Blood Guard yells 'Istendil is a criminal! Justice shall prevail!'
You parry the Blood Guard's attack.
You dodge the Blood Guard's attack.
The Blood Guard's slash wounds you.
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Grum parries your attack.
Your life drain devastates Grum!
A withering scythe adorned with Xanthak's Eye draws life from Grum.
Your life drain grazes Grum.
Some poison barbed gauntlets gleam with lethal poison.
Grum turns slightly green, but it passes.
Grum's fury LACERATES an armored Knight!
Grum's thorns maim an armored Knight!
Grum's fury LACERATES an armored Knight!
You dodge the Blood Guard's attack.
The Blood Guard's slash injures you.
You block the Blood Guard's attack with your weapon.
You block the Blood Guard's attack with your weapon.
The Blood Guard jumps in front of Grum!
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

gg
Your flamestrike mauls the Blood Guard.
Your flamestrike LACERATES Grum!
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Your life drain mauls Grum.
Your life drain devastates Grum!
A withering scythe adorned with Xanthak's Eye draws life from Grum.
Your life drain grazes Grum.
'Hawk Slayer' the Long Arm of the Commissar's smash misses an armored Knight.
Grum's fury LACERATES an armored Knight!
Grum's thorns maim an armored Knight!
Grum's thorns maim an armored Knight!
An armored Knight's flesh is seared by the flaming the Master Forgeman's Great Hammer adorned
with a glowing ember.
Grum's flaming bite grazes an armored Knight.
An armored Knight's flesh is seared by the flaming some segmented wooden stakes adorned with a
glowing ember.
Grum's flaming bite scratches an armored Knight.
You dodge the Blood Guard's attack.
You parry the Blood Guard's attack.
You dodge the Blood Guard's attack.
Grum has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Grum has fled!
Grum flies south.
An armored Knight is no longer blinded.

That's just the first example I came across. I have many more logs to show that mounted charge does at least 3 rounds of lag.

Once again, you use something which is wrong to build your thesis on, and once again your argument is void.

I hope that was hard enough?

That proves absolutely nothing - for all you know, Grum had other commands spammed in that did not give an echo (such as, oh, failed flees).

Saddled atop the Goliath, you charge Grizmaw at full speed!

Grizmaw yells 'Help! Maerothir just charged into me!'

Your charge attack *** DEMOLISHES *** Grizmaw!

Grizmaw dodges your attack.

A composite bow's arrows miss you.

Grizmaw's beating mauls you.

Grizmaw's slice decimates you!

You block Grizmaw's attack with your weapon.

You dodge Grizmaw's attack.

You parry a large wyvern's attack.

You dodge a large wyvern's attack.

You block a large spotted leopard's attack with your weapon.

You dodge a large spotted leopard's attack.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

You dodge a large spotted leopard's attack.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

You block a large spotted leopard's attack with your weapon.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

A large spotted leopard's claw injures you.

You block a large spotted leopard's attack with your weapon.

You block a large wyvern's attack with your weapon.

You dodge a large wyvern's attack.

You block a large wyvern's attack with your weapon.

Grizmaw has some small wounds and bruises.

746/808 835/879 454/454 91172etl>35857gold (M)ounted 20>

flame

Grizmaw dodges your attack.

A composite bow's arrows miss you.

You dodge Grizmaw's attack.

You dodge Grizmaw's attack.

Grizmaw's slice devastates you!

You dodge Grizmaw's attack.

You are shocked by the lightning from the Flail of Doom with a Doom rock in it

Grizmaw's shocking bite hits you.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

You dodge a large spotted leopard's attack.

You parry a large wyvern's attack.

You parry a large wyvern's attack.

You dodge a large wyvern's attack.

Grizmaw has some small wounds and bruises.

703/808 835/879 454/454 91172etl>35857gold (M)ounted 20>

Grizmaw has retreated!

Grizmaw flies east.

You block a large spotted leopard's attack with your weapon.

You parry a large spotted leopard's attack.

You dodge a large spotted leopard's attack.

You block a large spotted leopard's attack with your weapon.

You dodge a large spotted leopard's attack.

A large wyvern's poisoned bite hits you.

You block a large wyvern's attack with your weapon.

A large spotted leopard is in excellent condition.

Two rounds, command goes through before paladin spell cast.

Saddled atop the Goliath, Ilendriel charges you at full speed!

You yell 'Help! Ilendriel just charged into me!'

Ilendriel's charge attack DISMEMBERS you! You sure are BLEEDING!

Ilendriel has a few scratches.

147/MAXHP 334/MAXMN 385/MAXMV 70339etl>55532gold (D)ounted>

The night is about to end.

A blood spot crumbles into dust.

Ilendriel is in excellent condition.

156/MAXHP 339/MAXMN MAXMV/MAXMV 70339etl>55532gold (D)ounted>

You dodge Ilendriel's attack.

You dodge Ilendriel's attack.

Ilendriel blocks your attack with his weapon.

Ilendriel parries your attack.

Ilendriel blocks your attack with his weapon.

Something draws life from Ilendriel.

Your life drain scratches Ilendriel.

A spray of blood shoots forth from Ilendriel's wound!

Ilendriel has a few scratches.

161/MAXHP 339/MAXMN MAXMV/MAXMV 70339etl>55532gold (D)ounted>

rage

Your blood loss scratches Ilendriel.

Ilendriel's life drain decimates you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Ilendriel's life drain maims you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

Ilendriel dodges your attack.

Your slice mauls Ilendriel.

Your slice wounds Ilendriel.

Ilendriel blocks your attack with his weapon.

Ilendriel has a few scratches.

100/MAXHP 339/MAXMN MAXMV/MAXMV 70339etl>55532gold (D)ounted>

A giant mercenary walks north.

Ilendriel has a few scratches.

100/MAXHP 339/MAXMN MAXMV/MAXMV 70339etl>55532gold (D)ounted> Ilendriel is briefly surrounded by a holy aura.

You slam into Ilendriel, knocking him senseless!

Your bodyslam MUTILATES Ilendriel!

Ilendriel has a few scratches.

Two rounds, command goes through before paladin spell cast.

EDIT: By the way, mino charge has this exact lag also - two rounds, and you'll get a guaranteed command through before the mino does. I have never seen mino or paladin charges lag to anything more or less than exactly that without other modifiers in play.

EDIT 2: Also, this guaranteed command before the mino can do anything is oddly often part of the problem - in that very often people will go for the flee, which will leave them slightly lagged exactly when the minotaur is capable of moving after them and charging again.

(WANTED) (White Aura) (Bright Aura)Pamiyn the Holy Knight is here, sitting astride a white charger.

Saddled atop a white charger, Pamiyn charges you at full speed!

You yell 'Help! Pamiyn just charged into me!'

Pamiyn's charge attack MANGLES you!

Pamiyn has quite a few wounds.

Paodor: [33]:13856 - 1 - 319 361 410 D>

Pamiyn blocks your attack with his weapon.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

Pamiyn's life drain decimates you!

Your ice shield injures Pamiyn.

Your thorns maim Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has quite a few wounds.

Paodor: [30]:13856 - 1 - 293 361 410 D>

c thunderclap pamiy

c thunderclap pamiy

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn's life drain mauls you.

Your ice shield injures Pamiyn.

Your thorns decimate Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [28]:13856 - 1 - 269 361 410 D>

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn blocks your attack with his weapon.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

Pamiyn's life drain mauls you.

Your ice shield devastates Pamiyn!

Your thorns decimate Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [25]:13856 - 1 - 245 361 410 D>

Pamiyn narrows his eyes.

Pamiyn's flamestrike mauls you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [23]:13856 - 1 - 224 361 410 D>

Your thunderclap mauls Pamiyn.

Pamiyn already is dazed and confused.

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Now I leave the paladin charge discussion here. Comparing paladins with warriors is stupid anyway.

As for mino charge:

EDIT 2: Also, this guaranteed command before the mino can do anything is oddly often part of the problem - in that very often people will go for the flee, which will leave them slightly lagged exactly when the minotaur is capable of moving after them and charging again.

I agree with that. But if you don't have word of recall, or are cursed/telelocked you have no other choice but to flee.

There is something else going on there... take a look above, where thunderclap is shown to have a one round casting lag...

Paodor: [50]:13856 - 23 - 479 400 416 D>

tt

Your thunderclap mauls Pamiyn. ** Pamiyn covers his ears just in time!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [50]:13856 - 23 - 479 365 416 D>

Pamiyn narrows his eyes.

Pamiyn's flamestrike mauls you.

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [48]:13856 - 23 - 458 365 416 D>

The rain stopped.

Pamiyn rubs the dirt out of his eyes.

The thornbriars disappear around Pamiyn.

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [48]:13856 - 0 - 465 389 420 D>

Pamiyn blocks your attack with his weapon.

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn's life drain injures you.

Your ice shield wounds Pamiyn.

Your thorns wound Pamiyn.

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches. ** Paodor: [47]:13856 - 0 - 449 389 420 D>

dd

Pamiyn is blinded by the dirt in his eyes! ** Your kicked dirt grazes Pamiyn.

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Whereas when that charge occurred, thunderclap had a two round casting lag.

A darkly lush forest

Faint light filters through the thick canopy high overhead, reflecting

off of the dew laden vegetation and casting much of the leaf covered forest

carpet in deep shadows. Massive trees, mainly oak, rise up around you,

filling your view with thier majestic age.

[Exits: north east south]

A tree stump of a very old tree is here.

(WANTED) (White Aura) (Bright Aura)Pamiyn the Holy Knight is here, sitting astride a white charger.

Saddled atop a white charger, Pamiyn charges you at full speed!

You yell 'Help! Pamiyn just charged into me!'

Pamiyn's charge attack MANGLES you!

Pamiyn has quite a few wounds.

Paodor: [33]:13856 - 1 - 319 361 410 D>

Pamiyn blocks your attack with his weapon.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

Pamiyn's life drain decimates you!

Your ice shield injures Pamiyn.

Your thorns maim Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has quite a few wounds. ** Paodor: [30]:13856 - 1 - 293 361 410 D>

c thunderclap pamiy ** c thunderclap pamiy

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn's life drain mauls you.

Your ice shield injures Pamiyn.

Your thorns decimate Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches. ** Paodor: [28]:13856 - 1 - 269 361 410 D>

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn blocks your attack with his weapon.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

You parry Pamiyn's attack.

Pamiyn's life drain mauls you.

Your ice shield devastates Pamiyn!

Your thorns decimate Pamiyn!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches. ** Paodor: [25]:13856 - 1 - 245 361 410 D>

Pamiyn narrows his eyes.

Pamiyn's flamestrike mauls you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [23]:13856 - 1 - 224 361 410 D>

Your thunderclap mauls Pamiyn.

Pamiyn already is dazed and confused. ** Pamiyn has some big nasty wounds and scratches.

Paodor: [23]:13856 - 1 - 224 326 410 D>

Pamiyn parries your attack.

Pamiyn's life drain mauls you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Pamiyn's life drain decimates you!

You sure are BLEEDING!

You dodge Pamiyn's attack.

Your ice shield devastates Pamiyn!

Your thorns decimate Pamiyn!

Pamiyn looks pretty hurt. ** Paodor: [18]:13856 - 1 - 177 326 410 D>

Pamiyn narrows his eyes.

Pamiyn's flamestrike mauls you.

You sure are BLEEDING!

Pamiyn looks pretty hurt.

Paodor: [16]:13856 - 1 - 156 326 410 D>

Pamiyn parries your attack.

You dodge Pamiyn's attack.

You dodge Pamiyn's attack.

Pamiyn looks pretty hurt. ** Paodor: [16]:13856 - 1 - 156 326 410 D>

Your thunderclap mauls Pamiyn. Pamiyn already is dazed and confused. ** Pamiyn looks pretty hurt.

There was something else adding lag to Paodor here.

EDITED for clarity

I almost posted every solution to minotaur charge, and there are a LOT. But that is information you need to gather on your own.

On the part of 2-300 hp going from just the minotaur charge and the 2 rounds of combat to a fully prepared target...I've seen 500 damage in 2 rounds from plenty of other classes. Also, I take it you are referencing the Xylithix fight, well he's an illithid...Against someone as equiped as Slinore, yeah 2 rounds of open combat is just straight up painful. But really, 2-300 hp is not even that much. Go face an invoker, fully prepped, and see how fast your 2-300 hp goes away. I know for a fact I've dropped people with plenty of classes in well under 8 rounds. Even if it's 8 full rounds against someone with say 1k hp, that's 2-300 hp every 2 rounds.

On the minotaur charge-locking, or whatever you wanna call it. I can count 10 skills alone, all of which every class can get, and at least 4 other things you can use outside of skills to stop minotaur charge. Yes, with some of the tactics they will get that first charge in, but every warrior can do that.

This whole thread just seems like a way for the pbase to bash someone's play style. But I can guarantee you this, every class has tactics that "seem" unable to be dealt with, but every tactic can be dealt with. I have no problem with minotaur charge or the tactic of using it, stop bashing someone's play style. He isn't in here bashing yours...