I bash triggers. 
Minotaur Charge
Everyone keeps saying he's using triggers. He's not, and I know that for a fact considering I watched him pk people over thanksgiving, from the same room. It doesn't take much typing speed to move faster than someone.
Besides, sounds more like people are complaining about Slinore, not minotaur charge. If you hate him that much, it's likely for 2 reasons:
A) He kicked the snot out of you.
or
You thought you may have had him, and then he kicked the snot out of you.
Which makes the reason for you disliking Slinore, that you are not as good as him. There is ALWAYS someone better, remember that. And if you are one of the people that has lost to him, there is 0 argument you can generate. If a football team can win a game by running the ball, that's what they do...
I think this thread has run its course.
Everyone keeps saying he's using triggers. He's not, and I know that for a fact considering I watched him pk people over thanksgiving, from the same room. It doesn't take much typing speed to move faster than someone.
Besides, sounds more like people are complaining about Slinore, not minotaur charge. If you hate him that much, it's likely for 2 reasons:
A) He kicked the snot out of you.
or
Which makes the reason for you disliking Slinore, that you are not as good as him. There is ALWAYS someone better, remember that. And if you are one of the people that has lost to him, there is 0 argument you can generate. If a football team can win a game by running the ball, that's what they do...
I think this thread has run its course.
If you read my OP you will see that I am not going to say one way or another that he is or is not using a trigger. It is speculative to say so, and you are right...it questions player integrity, which is not our place to do.
I have had one character die to slinore, and the same one has also slain him several times. My other character has never died to him, and more recently has slain him as well. So you can get off your pedestal, and quit making baseless assumptions.
Slinore is just the most current user, notice I say USER not ABUSE there is nothing wrong with slinore's use of it...the skill itself is the problem imo not the character, of the skill in question in the thread. Honestly it is watching OTHERS logs, both on the forum and some I have been sent by friends, that inspired the thread. As well as encounters with charge-locking minotaurs in the past (randar is one that comes ot mind)
How about you actually read the constructive suggestions, and make counter points instead of shaking your finger at everyone. I find it difficult to understand why we cannot discuss skills and if they need to be or do not need to be toned a little, without things getting personal.
The discussion, at least the constructive part, is not over just because you say it is. Myself and several other players have made very strong arguments supporting a timer being added to minotaur charge, and we have also suggested several creative ideas to preserve the uniqe nature of the class (a chance to gore the target, causing bleeding, would be awesome). I have yet to see a legitimate counterpoint supporting why the charge should not be changed, other than a fantastical list of solutions with no real substance.
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While you both might be right, I'd also like to point out that commands put in after such charge or before are not based off ticks/rounds. I would imagine they're based off a different system of telling time between commands, shorter than rounds, and are added in the same fashion lag is.
Such as me typing "com flame" immediately after charging, I was able to get a flamestrike in right after the second round lag was freed, and Grum fled right after the second round went through. So while both of you might be correct, you're both wrong too.
Who the hell cares? It's already been established that he isn't unbeatable so I don't understand whats up with the flapping meat curtains.
Everyone just wants their vendetta cabal to be full of pushovers.
I've ran through Slinore once or twice, and been beaten by him. Shufei makes him look like sponge bob.
Crussaders cannot lag you to death if you have protective shield.
But without kick, my paladin can never beat them. Le sigh.
And that is relevant to the thread because ?
Crussaders cannot lag you to death if you have protective shield.
SOooo that's what this is about? Communers aren't beefy enough?
Slinore is also not as powerful as:
Zaruuk
Anamus
Instia
I have killed Slinore yet been destroyed by all three of these chars.
No one is uber powerful vs all classes. Just accept it.
I don't understand how Zhokril, who has that nifty little HEAD CODER flag under his name, is being ignored in these constant mentions of "round-based" lag. He already explained that rounds and lags have nothing to do with each other and that rounds are merely a player-based mechanism for gauging how long the average lag for a given command/skill is.
Can someone explain to me why you all are still trying to argue with the CODER of this game?
In other news, this thread has taken a turn for the stupid.
Edit: I'm reminded of my favorite quote. "Fighting on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a f***ing retard."
so says the constant gold medal content.
The fact of the matter is something IS wrong with the mechanics of minotaur charge. Im not saying strip it, but it is GUARANTEED lag vs ANYTHING. Anything. I can guarantee that if you had a minotaur to fight consistantly, you would feel the same way.
Alot of people felt mindflayer flail was fine. Imms said it was fine. Why did they change it? I ****ing wonder.
I played a mino warrior barbarian once, my first/only warrior to pinn. Its not slinore, its the skill/class combo. With my warrior lore, plus mino charge, I could lock -anyone- in combat, and pretty much fought like a berserker, and got a couple of wins due to just lag-locking decked chars that should have been able to tool me, if they could have entered any commands.
I'm not trying to say Slinore is op or anything like that, outta maybe 4-5 fights, he got me once, I out damaged him through the lag the other encounters. Get someone like Mindflayer, or Thulgan, to play a mino-warrior, same lore as I chose, and I think the flaws with the skill would just be much more easily noticed.
I also think warriors need -something- but lag lock is not it, more diversity in regards to what they can do with thier weapons. Really I'd be happy with getting rid of lag from sermon, toning down bash, getting rid of protective shield (never made any sense to me, your body is going to bounce off of this magical shield, but your none magical weapon will swing through just fine?)
Because a character is beatable, doesn't automatically mean a tactic used by the race or class will never have any need for changing.
Because a character is beatable' date=' doesn't automatically mean a tactic used by the race or class will never have any need for changing.[/quote']
Yes, why yes it does. That's exactly what it means.
Yes' date=' why yes it does. That's exactly what it means.[/quote']
could I refer back to Mindflayers, thanks to Nameless. Elshan was a beast of an avatar with mindflayer flails. He was pretty beatable. Flails were still in need of changing. They were changed. Argument voided.
I'm not talking about a weapon that nearly elf can use, but a race that can be 2 classes. And neither of them overpowered.
And hasn't minotaur charge been changed before already?
The mindflayer was changed because of Crusaders using them as holy weapons. Had nothing to do with any of the characters you mentioned or the claimed OP combos.
But really' date=' 2-300 hp is not even that much.[/quote']
The problem isn't the damage they are capable of doing (after all, he's capable of way more - 16 attacks over two rounds). The problem is the ability to consistently lag *anyone *while doing that damage. An invoker may hit harder, but there is a reason that invokers do not have a single lagging skill.
While you both might be right, I'd also like to point out that commands put in after such charge or before are not based off ticks/rounds.
I'm aware that "rounds" aren't really how command lag is measured, but they provide an acceptable approximation for the purposes of discussion. However command entry is timed by the game, it does not change that paladin/minotaur charges consistently lag for a period that most would approximate as equaling two rounds and that the victim of the charge is guaranteed an entered command before the charger. I have never seen a log that conclusively demonstrates otherwise - there has always been room for failed/echoless commands or, as in the case of Paodor above, something else kicking in to add to command lag.
For the record, I have not fought a mino warrior in years - I'm looking at this as an outside observer, not as someone who is sick of getting his butt kicked by a tactic.
Nothing wrong with mino charge lol
l2play
Still on this topic lol? I'd rather be discussing ways to beef up zerks and ninjas so we can get more players back. Who would play minos after a change to there defining skill? Like Dale said there are still stronger chars out there like Zaruuk and Sepahoona and minos are **supposed **to be there bane. I don't know about you guys but I prefer a more exciting fl and I want more players here! There's a reason why wow is so successful. Updates and patches, new quests, skills, classes etc. Give it a rest already and lets actually argue in the opposite direction for once.