I made a neutral adventurer when they first came out, I then noticed it let me go monk, I played it but from what I seen it wasn't any better than playing a good or evil monk.
But then I was a half-elf also.
Neutral monks
And you were the one playing it...
And you were the one playing it...
Another good point I forgot to mention.
RE: Tassin
I used that ability ALOT on the blm I played. ALOT it worked fairly decently in both of it's uses.
Monks should be allowed to go Neut.
It would not be OP in any way. I agree with Celerity about it being an outdated mechanic. I also agree with many others, I see monks as mostly a neutral class, with a few exceptions of monks going good/evil. shrug
I would love some neutral only classes.
I would love some neutral only classes.
Go roll an Aulian.
If we go by the 'ying/yang' scenario, monks could ONLY be neutral.
Really wanna give up avatar and undead now?
i see your point.
but yin and yang are not a way of life. it is an outlook on the morality of humanity. every good person has a bit of evil, and vice versa. a way of saying that the world isnt black and white.
its not saying that people cannot be good or cannot be evil. its saying that every good person has negative traits, and every evil person has redeeming qualities. but they are still good people, and still evil people.
in my opinion, monks should be forced to be lawful. thats it. LG LN or LE. simply because of the amount of self-discipline they must possess.
Even then you'd still have to overpower that person' date=' that skill alone won't give you the victory.[/quote']
You'd be surprised. My undead monk won many fights purely on the basis of laglocking from crane combined with that allowing me to still do other things (like disarm, making even more crane hits go through). It certainly isn't a "do this an you will win" combination, but it IS very effective.
And yes, there are ways for neutrals to obtain protection from good or evil. And blademasters are not capable of the kind of super-damage hits that monks are.
Quite frankly, I disagree that a blm is superior to monks. I've played both to 50, both in what many would consider the ideal combos (halfer blm and undead monk), and while both were VERY powerful I wouldn't really say one was stronger than the other. They required very distinct tactics and were strong against very different opponents.
EDIT:
in my opinion' date=' monks should be forced to be lawful. thats it. LG LN or LE. simply because of the amount of self-discipline they must possess.[/quote']
Lawful is a judgment on whether it is a person's nature to follow Tribunal laws, not on how orderly their thought processes are. As has been said elsewhere, one can follow a very strict code of laws and still be neutral if that code is not the Tribunal code (i.e. a Purity follower).
As Pali already said, discipline does NOT = lawful.
They are disciplined followers of their arts, not of the law. A real life example? Ninjas. They are highly disciplined and intensely trained (back in the day anyway...) but they were mostly rebel assassins, going against the samurai.
That is the basic gist of my ninja knowledge. If it's wrong, sorry. Correct me. I got my info here.
There are no ninjas. It's all holywood hype.
Law Vs. Chaos
Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.
Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.
"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.
"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.
Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.
Devotion to law or chaos may be a conscious choice, but more often it is a personality trait that is recognized rather than being chosen. Neutrality on the lawful-chaotic axis is usually simply a middle state, a state of not feeling compelled toward one side or the other. Some few such neutrals, however, espouse neutrality as superior to law or chaos, regarding each as an extreme with its own blind spots and drawbacks.
Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral. Dogs may be obedient and cats free-spirited, but they do not have the moral capacity to be truly lawful or chaotic.
in my opinion' date=' monks should be forced to be lawful. thats it. LG LN or LE. simply because of the amount of self-discipline they must possess.[/quote']
It's almost as if there are some files that might be of some kind of help in showing you what the various ethosi... ethi... ethoses... are.
Lawful Good:
Peace and cooperation are to be preserved for the good of all, according
to the believes of these individuals. Pacifist are of this path almost
without exception, although most lawful goods believe that certain
situations warrant action. They also believe in preserving the peace
within protected areas for the safety of the entire citizenry, so they
uphold the laws whether Justices are present or not.
See Also: HELP GOOD
Neutral Good:
Those of this path are strong followers of the Light, above all else.
The weak must be defended, and lawful neutrals act to ensure that right
triumphs over wrong, whether by assisting the law in a time of chaos,
or acting against an unjust government. Even if their actions will
sometimes bring about consequences to themselves, they are willing to
accept this in order to do what is good and right.
See Also: HELP GOOD
Chaotic Good:
Rebels and revolutionaries, these idealists strive to improve society
through upheaval. They are the over throwers of tyranny and the fighters
for freedom. They are not afraid to attack the law if they believe that
the establishment is corrupt, or if the system is protecting wrongdoers.
They believe in change for the betterment of all, even by violence if
necessary.
See Also: HELP GOOD
Lawful Evil:
Deceptive and manipulative, lawful evils augment their own power
through their use of laws and circumstances. Direct confrontation
is seldom necessary when there are more efficient and clandestine
ways to solve one's problems. When pressed, however, lawful evils
are prone to violently shedding their guise of unwillingness, in
sudden and unexpected displays of force. They will not break laws
even when it appears safe to do so, both out of the possibility of
the abrupt arrival of Justices and to avoid the appearance of being
blasphemous to the gods of order.
See Also: HELP EVIL
Neutral Evil:
Living by the phrase "by any means necessary", neutral evils use any
and all methods at their disposal to achieve what they want. Honor
and scruples exist only as weaknesses to exploit, and cruelty is but
another means of coercion. Whether through taking advantage of laws
or breaking them while their prey is lulled by its false security,
neutral evils are bound only by the power they have and their lust
for more.
See Also: HELP EVIL
Chaotic Evil:
From the common bandit to powerful warrior-lords, many choose to
follow the path of chaotic evil. These are the ones prone to violence,
the scoundrels and murderers, the curse and bane of society. Their
only law is the belief that might makes right. Power in its rawest,
purest form is the only order among this type, as they only obey those
capable of crushing them. Yet true chaotic evils will not
be content to serve their master for long, as it is their nature to
fight and overthrow, to compete in the eternal struggle to become
the most powerful.
See Also: HELP EVIL
Lawful Neutral:
Those who are lawful neutral preserve the existing order above all else.
Chaos and unpredictability can be dangerous, hence they seek to protect
the current system of laws and other forms of organization. Laws are
obeyed not out necessarily because one agrees with its ideology, but
because this is the way things must be done. Breaking the law goes
against everything that a lawful neutral stands for, whether they are
caught or not.
See Also: HELP NEUTRAL
True Neutral:
Whether through careful observation of the surrounding world or through
blatant indifference regarding the forces around them, true neutrals
live neither in laws or chaos, and their actions are neither good nor
evil. Those who are unconcerned with the struggles around them will
not ally themselves with any particular side in these conflicts, while
the more contentious followers of the Balance will impartially judge
which side is weaker and help them so that the natural Balance of Aabahran
is not disrupted.
See Also: HELP NEUTRAL
Chaotic Neutral:
The alignment of gamblers and rogues, chaotic neutrals serve only their
whims and strive to live life to its fullest. Random chance and Lady
Luck are what guide their lives, as they realize that they have little
control over the world outside of their own selves. Existing systems
which tell them what they can and cannot do are their natural enemies,
and they are often branded troublemakers by authorities. Although they
lead relatively carefree lives, they are watched closely by the Dark
Gods, for should their whims grow cruel or their professions grow overly
bloodthirsty, their hearts will be turned to evil.
See Also: HELP NEUTRAL
I see nothing about discipline in any of those.
WC
WC, stop slacking. I need you to bold the important parts of that. Pfft, you don't actually expect us to read the whole thing do you?
I would have highlighted something, but there was nothing about discipline!
WC
It's almost as if there are some files that might be of some kind of help in showing you what the various ethosi... ethi... ethoses... are.
WC
if only help files taught the english language..
If only basic common sense weren't a dying commodity...
a-g
if only help files taught the english language..
Alright, if you are going to get your undergarments in a bunch and start being dicky toward people who are dicky toward you then allow me to give you some advice, don't slam English skills with spelling errors in your post.
Capitalize your if and your english, you really shouldn't start a sentence with if, and the .. should really be ...
If you want to **** on me, do so for me being a dick. You've actually got a reason to do that. The spelling correction route is a weak troll for people who don't have any actual merits to stand on.
WC
edit: Naturally I am not one to care about other people's spelling and grammar, but when you question someone else on their use...
edit 2: Look Mad, I know I'm an ***. I know I have a short fuse. But I don't take things so personal, and I tend to forget quick. I know I've been dickish toward you quite a bit lately, but it's nothing personal. You're new here and this is a long established community. Certain people are certain ways, and obviously they get more stuck in there ways the long they live somewhere, most times it's not my intention to **** all over people, it's just how it comes out. It you want to put me in my place, do it the way Mudder did when I chewed on Mya. It's times like those where I think to myself, 'Man, I probably shouldn't have been a tard. Now I feel bad.' But post like these I think 'These people are just having some fun with me.'
Hopefully you recognize that I'm not trying to be a dick just to you personally, I'm just saying 'Hello' and showing the ropes in my own way. If not, I hope this explains it, I don't want to be the reason people leave the game.
**** you WC! You had sex with me, and just left me to deal with the children! You have the audacity to TAKE my 72" plasma TV and just say "Yeah, it's fine, because you get the kids."
You know what, it's people like you that make me actually want to die. Not just, die, of natural causes. But actually, physically jump off into some chasm of deathness wearing nothing but a thong, that's tied to some sort of hook so that it pulls my insides out and leaves my hollow corpse to descend forever whilst my insides bounce up and down on elastic underwear.
Dey
You know what, it's people like you that make me actually want to die. Not just, die, of natural causes. But actually, physically jump off into some chasm of deathness wearing nothing but a thong, that's tied to some sort of hook so that it pulls my insides out and leaves my hollow corpse to descend forever whilst my insides bounce up and down on elastic underwear.
Dey
That's the most romantic thing anyone has ever said to me...
WC
**** you WC! You had sex with me, and just left me to deal with the children! You have the audacity to TAKE my 72" plasma TV and just say "Yeah, it's fine, because you get the kids."
You know what, it's people like you that make me actually want to die. Not just, die, of natural causes. But actually, physically jump off into some chasm of deathness wearing nothing but a thong, that's tied to some sort of hook so that it pulls my insides out and leaves my hollow corpse to descend forever whilst my insides bounce up and down on elastic underwear.
Dey
And the most colo(u)rful post of the year goes to......