Does anyone else think they're a bit underpowered compared to everyone they have to fight? I mean, they do have to fight Knights because of raids. Nexus because of the undeads and just generally cranky populace of their halls. Syndicate, because everyone wants a Watcher, right? Or at least his head. I just think since the general excuse I hear about Tribunal getting more powerful things is that they have to fight everyone...that doesn't make them unique. I don't want to get banned or anything. I just noticed that most of the abilities I had in the cabal would never be put to use. I just would like to see some more balance amongst the cabals. I mean, there are always the classes/races that are powerhouses in any cabal. I'm not ranting or raving, just asking if anyone else feels the same way. I don't think anything major should be even considered, just minor changes. But I could be talking out my rear end because I did nearly condie my most recent watcher in a week, and the same day before all the new stuff was added.

I agree that Watchers have potentially just as many enemies as the Tribunal, but they are far less equipped to deal with them.

Aside from the Tribunal themselves (a cabal in which ganging is sanctioned) they have any necro, any undead, any demon, a lot of good aligned people who dislike raids, and the cabals these people are in. They are also no less immune to bounties than any other person, and so have the Syndicate to deal with, too.

Of coure, with the amount of people in each cabal subject to constant change it's hard to say who's more powerful straight out. But I think as a Watcher you have a tougher life than a lot of other cabals out there.

P.S. - I am not saying all Tribunals gang, or it'd be wrong if they did. Just saying it's the way the cabal works for good or bad.

I'm not saying they're severely underpowered. But anyone, or at least nearly any race/class, if not all can join Tribunal. As a group they have more potential. Watcher can only have neutrals, so that excludes a large number of classes, and just as many races.

PS. I brought this up to see if anyone else with some more experience thinks along the same lines. Because, well, I suck.

I sucked in watcher lol

But I think their skills are ok.

I can't remember a time (other then martinieus) when watcher was downa nd out for long.

I've been in watcher, and found their skills to be exceptionally powerful. Not a little power. Really powerful. Learn them. Love them. Eshaine, you know

Sometimes though, theres only so much you can do, but their powers are very strong and I'm not about to advocate giving them more, making them living gods that can take on 3 people at once, just because they chose to be there. I won't go through all the balance issues in too much depth though. Cabal life can be rough. We all deal with it. I find their power to be just unevenly distributed between the subcabals rather than underpowered as a whole. Swapping one skill between the two would balance it rather nicely.

It is true that Watchers have a lot of potential enemy cabals, but they still have far less enemies than the average cabaled good/evil who have to fight the opposite aligned (thats over athird of everyone) as well as the opposing cabal, they also have it much easier than syndicates who literally have to fight almost everyone because bounties are so cheap. Or the tribunals (there is no other cabal how is tagged as much as them). They are definitely not an easy cabal to be in though, the easiest being Savants:rolleyes: . Also as for the skills, they are strong IMO. You just need to know how to used them.

I've been in watcher, and found their skills to be exceptionally powerful. Not a little power. Really powerful. Learn them. Love them. Eshaine, you know

Sometimes though, theres only so much you can do, but their powers are very strong and I'm not about to advocate giving them more, making them living gods that can take on 3 people at once, just because they chose to be there. I won't go through all the balance issues in too much depth though. Cabal life can be rough. We all deal with it. I find their power to be just unevenly distributed between the subcabals rather than underpowered as a whole. Swapping one skill between the two would balance it rather nicely.

Agreed. They get some awesomely powerful skills in one subcabal. Never tried the other so I don't know if it's mirrored in that sucabal.

Dey

Well... for a cabal built around taking one vampires, liches, and whatnot... on TOP of auto outlaw... maybe a tweak might be nice.

The main point is... vampires? Come on.... they have to fight vampires. Have to. Liches, too. Something would be nice to at least remove the upward battle and even the playing field. As it stands now, they don't get much to do such.

I thought only one sub-cabal had to fight "unnatural" stuff( Vamps, undead, etc.)?

I would argue that both do (or should) but Warder to a lesser degree - if there is a Stalker and Warder on, with say, a vamp, Stalker should always be taking the priority on the Vamp over the Warder. If a Warder logs on and it's just them and a vamp, why wouldn't a Warder still want to see the vamp destroyed?

Dey

Why are you all been complaining about this? Have you not seen Kronit's pk log with Marty? And that was while he was an inductee against Marty's (T) status. Watcher skills are just as powerful in the right hands as any other cabal other than Heralds (because we all know Heralds don't pk). They are NOT underpowered. The ability to use those skills affectively is what this thread should be about. And even then, it depends on the player not the extra skills.

Exactly. Watcher skills are powerful. The argument that "Watchers must fight vamps etc." doesn't stand, because the race/classes that stand a chance against these classes, are given a considerable boost with the Stalker skillset. If you want to be, say, a Stalker Ninja, you just need to settle with the fact that you're going to have a hard time against Vamps for example. Just like if you were a Knight Ninja against a Nexus Vamp.

Dey

Why are you all been complaining about this? Have you not seen Kronit's pk log with Marty? And that was while he was an inductee against Marty's (T) status. Watcher skills are just as powerful in the right hands as any other cabal other than Heralds (because we all know Heralds don't pk). They are NOT underpowered. The ability to use those skills affectively is what this thread should be about. And even then' date=' it depends on the player not the extra skills.[/quote']

Umm...INDUCTEE! Watchers don't get active skills till V. That was all skill. And Watcher skills are awesome, like I said, for certain race/classes, just like any cabal. But as I thought would happen, everyone ignored what I actually said and just saw watcher, heard powerup, and started talking.

Did I not imply that he had skillz? Not skills? My mistake.

Did I not imply that he had skillz? Not skills? My mistake.

If I came off as an *** right there I didn't mean to, it's just that everyone tries to argue a player's skill as the power for a race/class/cabal. And I'm not just talking about Cabal powers here. I was talking about pets as well.

If you want to talk about Kronit then...he was an ogre ranger with specific ranger path, with two beasts. He had skillz, and I bet if he were to play another char he would own once again.

I mean't Watcher's pets. There's only one that can even make a bit of difference, but because of it's rank disadvantage, it's shining skill lands one out of every 10 times it tries.

Watcher skills are a big help to all race/class combos that go Watcher. The problem isn't neccessarily the Cabal skills they get, but rather, the race/class the play, that determines how well they do. But some race/class combos will benefit more with these skills than others. Why? Taking the same example, look at a Stalker Feral Thief/Ninja. Trying to fight a vamp, damn tricky right? Should Stalker get a tweak because of that? No, because how about an Ogre Ranger/Warrior fighting the same vamp, combined with the Stalker skillset?

Just because Stalkers are sent to fight Demons/Undeads/Avatars doesn't mean that every race/class combo should be able to do it effectively. That's like saying that just because Knights have to fight Nexus, every single race/class combo that joins Knight should be able to do that task well.

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at, and if not, I apologize - perhaps you could clarify? The Stalker skillset is a strong toolset for those out looking to do what Stalkers do best, infact, every single Stalker skill from Member to Elder is very useful (I can't say about Leader as I don't know what it does) and I don't believe anybody who says otherwise. As for Warders, I have seen only a handful of their skills (when used against me) and I know that a couple were pretty cool and helpful, but I can't say for sure on them. However, Warders are primarily the town-rampagers and I imagine their skillset is tailored to that type of thing, as opposed to the seeking and killing the unnatural people of Aabahran.

EDIT: And as for the pets thing, well, the pets are sort of like a little bonus. If you consider how Watcher pets are gained compared to any other Cabal that uses pets, I think it's a pretty good trade-off for a pet that isn't SUPPOSED to be as strong as other Cabal pets.

Dey

Umm...INDUCTEE! Watchers don't get active skills till V. That was all skill. And Watcher skills are awesome' date=' like I said, for certain race/classes, just like any cabal. But as I thought would happen, everyone ignored what I actually said and just saw watcher, heard powerup, and started talking.[/quote']#

You are wrong. You get skills at M you just need a cp base to activate them. The most useful stalker skill you get at V (and this is a NUTS skill), whereas you get the really good skills only at T in most other cabals.

PS I still want to see a slith warder something (thief or blademaster), that would be such a nice combi.

The most useful stalker skill you get at V (and this is a NUTS skill), whereas you get the really good skills only at T in most other cabals.

If you're talking about the one I think you are, I have to agree. It's brilliant.

And if anything I said in my previous post was too much, I apologize - I think it was alright.

Dey