hellstream

Let's go ahead and change the invoker essay...Hellstream doesn't drain them. They can still cast it 10000000000 times.

I think it's talking about the lag time compared to other spells.

well then it should say it takes longer...like the pally one says about Wrath. I just got pounded by an invoker (who interestingly enough would have beaten me senseless anyway) because I assumed I would be seeing either one hellstream or at least a serious drop off afterwards.

The essays were meant as new/medium skill level survivability essays, not as a means to necessarily pk them. You either died or got horribly beaten, and that's porbably the best way to learn, that and making one yourself.

Peace.

Doesn't actually fall under this heading, but I started the topic so I'm gonna shift it. I hate hate hate whatever that evil cleric spell is with the evil aura that strangles you. I hate hate hate whatever the evil clerics use that spell that makes chakera strikes not work even after they get chii bolted and like 6 spells fall. Tone them down for the love of all things holy.

bolt (target)

(target) flees

commune 'protective shield'

Chii bolt knocks three spells down. Armor, shield, and protective shield(this being the one that prevents lag).

Chii bolt lags for two rounds, mixed with airthrash for another third round. Lucky chakra can equal a lock.

Don't say something is overpowered within one fight. Especially if it's your first pin, first time playing that class, first time fighting that class, etc.

You want more in detail discussion of the fight? Make a shout out where you can name the individuals fighting and I'm sure they will be willing to discuss the finer details of your mistakes. And since you also created the warmaster thread, I know who you are playing, and I'd gladly point out some issues we had when I fought you.

Peace.

I have fought enough evil clerics to have a burning hatred for all things Path of Deceit related. I have no problem with the spell I guess since other mage/communer classes also get nasty powerful spells. I have absolutely no clue how protective shield manages to prevent chakera strikes and air thrashes though. They are in no way any sort of bashing attack... A chakera strike (after some research) is a spin off of Quivering Palm and that sort of stuff from D&D. It is touching a specific area with a great deal of force. How can a regular barehanded strike land with full force and a chakera strike can't? I guess the mages have been studying their own anatomy and carefully placing their protective shields or something...

1. Protective shield doesn't prevent air thrash.

2. This isnt' D&D.

This game has to be balanced properly, a monk with a properly executed opening attack can lag a mage at LEAST three rounds, with any amount of luck will get them for 5. If protective shield didn't stop that, then when they fled to recast it and the monk came in with trip.....I dont' think monks need any more help vs mages/communers.

Now, I'm no expert, but this may have something to do with it, and I quote:

The shield spell...helps the caster by deflecting the critical attacks so that if an attack does land, it doesn not land with as much force.

I've always wondered if that just means higher AC means less damage, or if it's something more special, I.E. helping against monk anat strikes or something.

This spell surrounds the caster with a shield of magical energy, preventing

him from being hit by opponents throwing their bodies against him. However,

this shield does not protect the caster from other forms of blunt attacks such as attacks by a mace.

Since fists work on roughly the same principles as maces, I must be missing something every important that isn't actually written.

I give up. Take it up in the prayer forum.

No...I understand that it works the way it does. I just have no idea why the help files and things like that (the stuff people like me are directed to when we are trying to learn since people can't just come right out and tell us all the little secrets.) are blanantly wrong/missing information/omit information about certain things while spelling out others.

If we are forced to learn everything ourselves with only the help files and essays to turn to...they should at very least be right.

Maybe I'm wrong. I dont' know the code. Maybe it is shield that protects against chakras, but as far as I KNEW and have experienced, it was protective shield. Thus, if you want an answer, go to the prayer forum and I'm sure you'll get a more acurate response.

Change taticks, go for dirt shield disarm. Dont gimp saves and prepare for his "strangulate" (witch is not strangulate).

I think your monk can take 5 rounds vs a Clerics, even with him spamming path.

Wanna see a monk lag a invoker? Go look at the Jaerat vs Invoker log. Lags that faerie pretty well.

Have Behrens post some tylith logs. He chewed up pretty much any mage he ran across. Definitely some good tactics in those if you're looking.

Few tips from the invoker side.

If I know I'm going up against a monk, mana shield and prot shield will be up, I'll be flying. If memory serves, prot shield protects me against air thrash. Mana shield protects against chakras (been a long time, I could be mistaken here). Chii bolt can do some bad things, opening them up to lagging abilities.

Wanna see a monk lag a invoker? Go look at the Jaerat vs Invoker log. Lags that faerie pretty well.

Over the years all of my toons that i have done well with (because i have had my share of flops mind you) always fall to a cleric, and typically evil.

I have always resisted ever making one, because they seem so easy to pk with...one day though i will.

Truly though i bet if you polled it, those that arent diehard cleric fans would all want the class...."less favored" by their gods.

But hey, thats just an opinion...but it always does seem to be a cleric that ends any pk'ing streak i ever have.

Over the years all of my toons that i have done well with (because i have had my share of flops mind you) always fall to a cleric, and typically evil.

I have always resisted ever making one, because they seem so easy to pk with...one day though i will.

Truly though i bet if you polled it, those that arent diehard cleric fans would all want the class...."less favored" by their gods.

But hey, thats just an opinion...but it always does seem to be a cleric that ends any pk'ing streak i ever have.

I thought the exact same thing. I've been here for six years, and my will power failed, and I made an evil cleric. I wanted to prove that they were easy to PK with, to get them toned down. However, what I learned was that they are not so easy to pk with. Yes, they will beat warriors sometimes, and berserkers sometimes. But they will also die, a lot. I was even a DEMON and it was hard.

Invoker tips vs monks

find a way to have stone skin and protection if applicable (all classes vs monks)

use an offensive shield (not mana)

always fly, and have protective shield up

if your protective shield is dropped, flee and recast immediately

If they go defensive, use hellstream (or call lightning if it works), if offensive try to use lower spell lag spells like flame arrow or call lightning(race dependent--some might need hellstream)

Try to dispel at most only two times...damage is more important here

find a charmie that trips or bashes (useful against most classes, unless you use autosneak a lot)

Hope all that she does is try to lag you (newbie monk)

Clerics:

Mana shield and call lightning. If inside, use flame arrows to drop spell turning and use hellstream for attrition win--people shouldn't play attrition with invokers. If they are naked, use fireball or flame arrow (race dependent).

Have Behrens post some tylith logs. He chewed up pretty much any mage he ran across. Definitely some good tactics in those if you're looking.

Few tips from the invoker side.

If I know I'm going up against a monk, mana shield and prot shield will be up, I'll be flying. If memory serves, prot shield protects me against air thrash. Mana shield protects against chakras (been a long time, I could be mistaken here). Chii bolt can do some bad things, opening them up to lagging abilities.

Tragically, I lost all of them via reformat. Feel free to post your side if they remain.

There is no air thrash protection. If it sticks, flee. Otherwise, as long as prot. shield is up, it isn't enough lag to worry you. Call lightning tends to be less useful as monks have lower armor due to encumbrance.

I prefer fire shield to mana shield, despite the fact that chii 2 makes their attacks magical. A smart monk will have chii 3 against an invoker, and use it as soon as you're thrashed. Fire shield means that flame arrow is probably your best attack. Keep firestorm up at all times, both for the extra damage, and the slight chance to blind. A monk has blindfighting, but any advantage to your lousy parrying helps.

Make your staff no-disarm if at all possible. A monk disarms much better than you'd expect, and without a charged staff you are toast.

A skilled monk will be in crane. Buddha works, but is too defensive, and the invoker will be able to get away because of lack of mana draining and lag. The lag and mana/move drain from the minor strikes will complete a lock if the monk manages to trip, so flying is CRITICAL.

That'll do it for now.