Warmaster inductee period

3 minutes ago, FatMike said:

I totally get it, been there many times. What would you give them to make them like others? Sub-cabal at I? Sanc/stance at I? I mean it sucks, really sucks but it ain't that bad. Like I said, it's worse when you have the same outcome at M as at I. Which again, have been there many times also. So if you give them sanc/stance at I and people still get rolled, then what? Trusted skills at I?

I think the exaggeration of saying Trusted skill at Inductee like you've said and @Erelei said(sarcastically) is exactly what @Kyzarius said earlier, absurd.  Why would you get rolled? You've access to sanctuary.. You shouldn't get absolutely rolled and if you DO then its a player skill/preparation issue and not a cabal gimping you issue. Totally different. 

That's not what's being proposed or even asked for. What is being asked for is the removal of a 10 hour period where you are basically expected to lose and get your butt kicked. From the perspective of someone that has had MANY WMs and even won a few fights as an inductee, the bigger issue is it cuts you off from the rest of the game. You can't effectively travel, get EQ, complete harder quests, etc. 

God forbid you're an inductee at the start of the month and you can't even kill Sai-Lam for a fingerbone.

Its just not fun. Its not. No one here has actually said they enjoy the Inductee period.

I enjoy the inductee period

about as much as I enjoy anything, these days.

I didn't post in ideas to get it changed. I posted in newbie because I genuinely don't know how/why it was put in place. Was just curious because those deep seated customs can help secure foundations for future rp interactions with wms. I just really don't know much of the lore behind it. 

While it's frustrating getting wrecked, I don't really have many problems with. Eq is super easy to get now days, and you can pull out some shocking wins, so it gives you 10 hours to pull a bragging rights win out of your hat.

59 minutes ago, Trick said:

Its just not fun. Its not. No one here has actually said they enjoy the Inductee period. 

I enjoy the inductee period.

I enjoy it for a couple reasons. First, I don't have the stress of needing some great suit to feel like I can compete. I assume I am going to die and lose gear so I feel free to lay it all out on the line without the suit. Typically I play very cautiously so it is nice for me to step out without fear or care.

Secondly, when you actually do well as inductee it is an awesome feeling. Even better when you are able to kill someone as an inductee. It feels great. To me a small price to pay. 

I believe I am the minority in this regard. I personally do not care if it changes or remains. Not a hill I really care to die on.

It depends, if you have big feeling and cannot accept a single dead, it is bad. But if you accept the way of Warmaster and possibly die and go further after that, it is enjoyable period :)

I mean I got shit on by elders and leaders using every buff while getting yelled at for using weapon cleave lol. They where not super interested in letting me do anything besides dirt rage and slam.

I have only played one WM.

I used the inductee period to get my timing down. I knew I would not win many rounds, but I knew that once the skills began I could count on timing it right.

In the end I did not have a winning record. Who cared. I won several challenges, my game improved. And not just as a WM, but as a player in general.

Boot Camp sucks. But soldiers go through it all over the world. I had a positive experience with it. RPed with my brethren and just kept getting back up.

I mean full metal jacket shows the dangers of hazing the new guy lol

So what we have here is something that doesn't need any changes actually. It sucks, it has always sucked but it is not that big a deal. You don't lose lives, you can use it to get better because you have nothing to lose unless some d-bag takes/sacrifices weapons/equipment and it shouldn't be anything that you can't get yourself unless you had some lucky group trips to places you can't get to alone.

Ideally, you take what we intend and make it into a feature:

Do we want to sharply differentiate cabal onboarding (@f0xx)? Then let's do that correctly. Let's do it with direction and purpose, across the board. I don't think this was intended as a differentiator due to the history, but if that is the continuing reason for WM inductees to be treated differently, we can approach the situation and come up with a suitable design to do it well.  As is, this 'feature' does not adequately accomplish that purpose.

Do we want to create a trial or hazing experience (whether exclusive to WM or not)? Then let's go forth with that in mind. There are much better ways to accomplish that purpose than a simple gimp, ways that are more immersive, more fun, and more suited to that purpose. The induction period for WM currently fails in most metrics as a successful implementation of a 'challenge trial', especially for a game.

Do we want to encourage a more aggressive style of play with less consequence (whether exclusive to WM or not)? We can do that. Start with examining the rule-backed consequences in place and work from there. Again, the WM inductee period was not originally intended for this (no magic from history; no con loss due to severe handicap complaints), but we could make it fit this goal rather well, if that is our purpose.

Do we intend WM inductee to be a 'PK training zone'? Etc, etc, etc.

Starting to see a pattern here? What is the purpose of the WM inductee period as is? Let's get that answer then fit the feature to the purpose.

That's a win-win.

That clarified, we can't actually do anything until we have a purpose.

Like what was said earlier, the situation is a feature on a whim, based only on history and tweaked as a reaction to complaints. It has no true continuing purpose as is.

I see a lot of attempts to assign purposes and reasoning to that feature to justify it. I propose that we do it the right way: assign the feature to a purpose.

We'll have much better results.

Did someone suggest a change when WM was full and Savant was empty for months and months? I may have missed it.

This wasn't a suggested change. This was just to clarify what exactly it is. And for the record I did actually ask about it when I played tiroq with berston, the super halfling, and decimus. Because I spent 10 hours with them absolutely demoralizing me lol. Again in just wanted a discussion, not a player dividing campaign to change everything we slightly disagree with