There is no lag to the person being fled from. There is lag to the person that is fleeing though (ie' date=' the mino).[/quote']
So if your a caster/communer and you are getting low on hp and need to dance around, if you get charged and flee, he can keep you lagged and in combat. You can only flee.
Seems a bit much.
Ninja Melee Viability
Tetsunai was the only ninja I never managed to kill. He didn't manage to kill me either though, although I'd have been getting close to getting assassinated one time trying to tail him. He was too quick though
Barnok & Moriath I killed a number of times. Barnok did kill my undead monk once though. Dual acid blast scroll whilst I was sleeping (half dead off the bat), stupid shadowstrike that wasn't dodgable and then autothrows out the arse. Basically, I got caught with my pants down.
On second thought, appears I must have killed Tet. Found a log where I was taking a reaming for an imm for killing too many people and the topic arose. Just on the experience I recall I was running around in circles in Val Miran and just couldn't tag him. After about 12-16 in games hours of doing this, I got the hell out of there.
Heh, I remember that. I had a full study on you and I was waiting for you to come back then you logged, saddest day of my life =)
So if your a caster/communer and you are getting low on hp and need to dance around, if you get charged and flee, he can keep you lagged and in combat. You can only flee.
Seems a bit much.
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying but let me try to explain further. If the charger charges you and flees, you will be able to move/iniiate a command at exactly the same time he fled you might even get an attack off before he's able to flee. What happens while you wait for the lag from that command is a different story, you have to make it count.
Heh' date=' I remember that. I had a full study on you and I was waiting for you to come back then you logged, saddest day of my life =)[/quote']
I knew what was going on brother
Good to see you around mate.
Tot.
However if the victim casts a one round spell immediately after the charge. The charger can flee and return and charge again before the lag from that one round spell wears off. So that one spell you cast basically costs you two charges at four rounds of melee. That was probably the only thing I saw that could use some tweaking with minos against those select few classes.
Which is the same thing as getting triplocked because you put in a command instead of a flee and lose that one command you can often enter between trips. Or getting bodyslam/bashlocked by entering a dirt (or other command) after being bashed. What you pointed out is in no way unique to mino chargers...
If what you are trying to say is that the ability to lag (read: lag, not lock) a c/c with some consistency (but without a lock) is "overpowered", than that is a different story. I am not entirely opposed to that idea; if that is what you are trying to say, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it.
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying but let me try to explain further. If the charger charges you and flees' date=' you will be able to move/iniiate a command at exactly the same time he fled you might even get an attack off before he's able to flee. What happens while you wait for the lag from that command is a different story, you have to make it count.[/quote']
I think you misunderstood me. Let me explain.
Mino charges cleric. Cleric fights Mino. Cleric needs to heal. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric before cleric's flee lag wears off. Rinse, repeat. I say that is a bit much.
I would also like to add that I have been completely charge locked for 3 charges. After the first charge I entered, "cast word of recall" The word of recall went through after I died. I will add that I had NO previous commands entered. So it IS possible, regardless of what has been said. I've experienced it. Is it common? I'm not sure, I didn't stick around to find out. But it has happened before.
I see no reason the mino should be lagged the same as the cleric. I say mino is lagged 2 rounds, cleric lagged for 1.5. Or just put in the charge timer, I think that is most fair.
I've experienced similar. I know what you're saying Zhokril, but I've literally sat and waited to see my command get through. If it got through, and THEN I was charged again, I wouldn't be calling it a chargelock, because I wouldn't be locked into doing nothing from lag. I literally waited for the spell to fire, and it didn't come. Then as a ghost I recall, or don't have enough mana to. Literally.
I've experienced similar. I know what you're saying Zhokril' date=' but I've literally sat and waited to see my command get through. If it got through, and THEN I was charged again, I wouldn't be calling it a chargelock, because I wouldn't be locked into doing nothing from lag. I literally waited for the spell to fire, and it didn't come.
The only possible case where this could happen is if your existing lag was longer than 2 rounds already before the charge, in which case the greater lag (the original > charge lag) would remain. Barring that, I can tell you with 99% certainty that you are remembering incorrectly. I don't mean to devalue what you remember, but the code does not lie or make mistakes.
And I can tell you with 100% certainty that the case of charge you are discussing does not work differently than any other skill which lags the char and victim equal time. (ie, a bash lagging both the char and victim 2 rounds)
EDIT: I should also add that, to duly investigate your claim, I reviewed every log posted of Lamah's fights on prayer forum, of which there are a considerable number, and charge behaved exactly as I described in every case. (and the charge/flee/charge tactic was used many times)
Mino charges cleric. Cleric fights Mino. Cleric needs to heal. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric before cleric's flee lag wears off. Rinse' date=' repeat. I say that is a bit much.[/quote']
I would agree with your assessment of this particular scenario. We will discuss it among the staff and make appropriate changes if deemed necessary.
I would agree with your assessment of this particular scenario. We will discuss it among the staff and make appropriate changes if deemed necessary.
Im curious where all this minotaur hate came from lately o.0
Minotaurs chargelocking people. (Zhokril, effectively, perhaps not super ultra literally. Lag is same for both. 
)
Heh' date=' I remember that. I had a full study on you and I was waiting for you to come back then you logged, saddest day of my life =)[/quote']
Woah, what the hell... you're still here?! Dude!
Mino charges cleric. Cleric fights Mino. Cleric needs to heal. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric. Cleric flees. Mino charges cleric before cleric's flee lag wears off. Rinse' date=' repeat. I say that is a bit much. [/quote']
Jesus christ man. Stop already. If cleric is fleeing, maybe he should cast word, casting is also not your only option. You can enlarge yourself, lowering that lag, you can also start combat on the mino. There are several sockets, and abilities, that blind characters, there is also the thought that maybe minos need a boost vs casters. What is it gonna be if Minos get the nerf bat? Your making it safer for casters, and harder for melee. It has been proven countless times that casters get it a bit easier than melee. Also factor in the connection you have to the web, you have said it is not up to par, so half that lag can easily be your bad connection. If you are getting tuned because of fleeing, and them chasing you into the next room, DO NOT FLEE. You have orbs of recall, potions of recall, stones of recall, AND the spell word of recall. If you get charged to death because you do not know when you use recall, then maybe that would be the problem.
Minotaurs have a strong ability yes. But lets go over this list:
Minotaur - charge
Stone - Boulder throw
storm - water bonus
fire - fire weapon bonus bash bonus
ogre - regen and health bonus
Human- magical effect bonus
slith - Varying from camo, to dirt protection
Faerie- autofly and sneak
Avian - nice recall, autofly
Dwarf - mag resist, high con
Halfer - Random thiefy bonuses, mag resist
Drow/elf- Autosneak
You can use ANY of these abilities in ways that make you far FAR nastier. To say that people get lag locked by a melee character is overpowered, well that is just silly. Melee can lag the mino just the same, if not harder. Casters can open in melee. for christ sake every class has access to the spell calm, if you do not know where, Im not telling you. That nullifies charge. Slow nullifies charge.
EDIT: Nevermind. I'm dropping out of this thread. I've made my points and said what I need to say. No point in debating further. If the Imms agree with me they do, if not they won't. If anyone wants clarification with anything I've said. PM me.
I arrived late, but i would like to add my input.
Minotaurs get:
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Giant Size.
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Charge with any weapon.
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Wield 2 handed axes in offhand plus another in main hand.
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Racial Axe and Charger.
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Only Giant size race with no Vulnerability to Mental.
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Good meele Stats. Think not ? Go play a Human.
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Ability to charge and LAG with no cool down timer.
Minotaur berserker get increased charge damage.
I personaly do not have yet any issue with Minotar Zerks Charge, because the ones i fought had to use skills in PK, if they ever wished to defeat me.
But Multiple Lag charge on Mino Warriors is overkill.
They can just flee charge you over and over and a Caster/Communer cannot do anything. While they keep using all their Class Strengths, the Meele.
A warrior has four attacks for each hand coupled with Fired Weapons.
A Berserker only has 3 attacks for each hand but if he choses to dual wield he only keeps two defenses, or one in case of Raging.
A cleric needs to flee and heal, and a Mage to Cast spells. That is why they have Protective shield and easy access to Flight.
Can we please remove the Minotaurs Charge lag from Mino WARRIORS ?
They do not need it.
Also, about Paladins charge.
Paladins can Mounted charge you ONCE and Lag you, then they can charge you again, but they only deal damage and no lag, and they lose the extra damage from Mounted combat.
I do not see why it is not the same with Minotaurs.
I do not see why it is not the same with Minotaurs.
minotaurs don't get cure critical and a cure for almost every mal in the game.
Why would anyone want to play a mino warrior if the lag from charge is made like the rest?
As someone said previously, the lag from charge is same for the mino and for the target. Then the mino has to flee, scan, enter the room AND charge again. If that is not enough time for the communer to run/recall away and heal, then perhaps one should look at his own skills.
As for casters - invokers have firestorm, battlemages have mirror image, necromancers have zombies.
Meles have counter/dirt.
Wont even get into DKNs and the damn warlock...
Paladins, why charge at all and risk to be countered when you can bash straight?
If mino warriors are nerfed then we will have just one less race that is good for warriors.
[edit] I've played a warmaster mino warrior and believe me, it is nowhere as easy/effective to do the charge/flee/charge thing as some of you make it sound. Yes it gives you a big edge over mages, but only against mages who ain't very bright.
[edit2] And I won't even get into the situation when you have to fight strong mele combos.
[edit3] Just remember this thread is about ninja mele viability, so sorry for the offtopic 
Why would anyone want to play a mino warrior if the lag from charge is made like the rest?
Why would anyone play a Stone Warrior when they can now play a lagging charging mino ?
How about for all the other racial perks ?
Why would anyone play a Stone Warrior when they can now play a lagging charging mino ?
How about for all the other racial perks ?
The point is that you are taking away the only useful racial perk minos have. Stone giants have some of the best racial perks in the game I am sure you know that.
The last mino warrior that pwned the PB was Lamah and he was played by one of the best PKers this mud has.
I don't want to be a jerk, but I must add... Lamah owned when he was decked. Not before, not after. He was decked only for his reign. He was deleted after he lost his eq. 