Paladin is the good counterpart,,, so what is the difference.
Seems to be the consensus that a Paladin is fine at 50 and a DK is gimped?
What are the spells/skills that makes one work and not the other?
Dark Knight
Dark-Knights aren't gimped, people just don't know how to play them.
Dark-Knights aren't gimped' date=' people just don't know how to play them.[/quote']
How should they be played, and why doesn't anyone?
Read the dark-knight essay. Experiment with different weaponry/armors/tactics versus different classes. Don't keep malforming the same item over and over - try different items and see what you come up with. Try different religions - they're not all the same. Learn how to malform a weapon and keep it, ie - when to run from a battle, what kind of races/classes you do well against, and can therefore be used as fodder. Experiment with different charmies. If you're going to be in a heated battle, don't pick something that's going to kick your *** if you miss your timer. Learn your banes and avoid them or figure out a way to overcome them. Learn what classes are weak to you, and exploit those advantages. Once you figure out your banes, you can pick a cabal/subcabal that may or may not give you the skills you need to defeat them. You don't always need to be wielding your malform, either - sometimes there are weapons that are better suited to the situation.
I truly appreciate the efforts of your last post. I guess what I mean is why is it not one of the classes that everyone picks. I see good/evil clerics/shaman/healers/ See Rangers/BMG/BLM Thieves/Ninjas etc.. Just no DK's what is it about them ..
They aren't very survivable and are eq dependent. They can kill things but also take deaths rather easily. Any race/class combo that can die easily and requires eq to function well will never be really popular (zerks, non-giant warriors/rangers, dks, bards). Thieves are the exception because they can be fun in other ways!
A death is a lot worse than getting a pkill. Even if those other classes can't pkill as easily, in the long run, they have the better kill-to-death ratio.
generally speaking, DK's will die to any bash-happy giant but can do quite well against others. However, with the right charmie and/or preparation, it is possible to avoid that.
I suggest trying an avian out if you're going to 50.
Races to Pick: Avian, Human, Demon
Cabals to Pick: Syndicate, Nexus
Weapons to Pick: Axes, Polearms, Flails, Whips
Armor to Pick: -30ish saves + -10 svsspell, 40ish hit/dam
Tactics:
Warriors/Berserkers/Rangers
Run. Or, if you're braver than me, try to cleave berserkers/rangers. Try to immediately plague warriors (do not attempt to cleave). Use magical weapons (unless they're a magic resist race). Get veil of darkness on to remove their ability to chase. Try to poison rangers to avoid attrition. Use curse to cut off escape, and finish off with offensive spells (fireball/harm). Try to summon rangers away from pets.
Battlemages/Invokers
Open with cleave (using a heavy weapon), hope they fall asleep. Go for silence if they do, followed by curse, plague, and veil of darkness. If they don't fall asleep, skip silence and go straight to the mals.
Monks/Blademasters
Land plague and poison at all costs, followed by veil of darkness to help you outrun them while you're using attrition to get rid of their mana. Use axes for blademasters, polearms for monks. Do not try to cleave. Play hit and run with curse, weaken, and some offensive spells (harm, fireball, etc.) Get as many charmies as you can (you can have up to three), and hope for a laglock. If they are in offensive/shadowdancer/bladestorm, use a two-handed weapon. If they are in defensive/deathweaver/kyousanken, dual wield.
Ninjas/Thieves/Bards
Keep your time in the cities to a minimum. Stay poisoned at all times, and be prepared to fireball if you get blackjacked and wake back up due to poison. Follow with bash (preferably enlarged).
Necromancers
Open with cleave, preferably with a nodisarm polearm. If that fails, run. Do not attempt to fight a necromancer that you do not get a serious jump on. If you do land cleave, try to silence, curse, and plague. Open and fight with energy drain. A drained necromancer is a dead necromancer (and an illithid can't go into shock without mana). Try to summon away from pets.
Clerics/Druids/Healers/Shamans
Open with cleave. Land curse and veil of darkness. Follow up with poison/plague, and keep the pressure on wielding two flails, a flail and a whip, or a flail and an axe. Do not let yourself get spelled up - after they land a mal or two, get out of there or you're screwed.
Must Masters:
Teleport
Fireball/Iceball
Curse
Plague
Poison
Veil of Darkness
Energy Drain
Harm
Cleave
All Defenses
All Weapons
Spells to have up at all times:
Unholy Strength
Detect Invis
Invisibility
Protection
Monks/Blademasters
Land plague and poison at all costs, followed by veil of darkness to help you outrun them while you're using attrition to get rid of their mana. Use axes for blademasters, polearms for monks. Do not try to cleave. Play hit and run with curse, weaken, and some offensive spells (harm, fireball, etc.) Get as many charmies as you can (you can have up to three), and hope for a laglock. If they are in offensive/shadowdancer/bladestorm, use a two-handed weapon. If they are in defensive/deathweaver/kyousanken, dual wield.
I think you got confused with necromancers a little. Also, you can't have unholy strength up at all times or you'll be running around drained half the time.
You can get 2 charmies with any class that gets scrolls.
Great post Evangelion.
DK's are so frustrating to play but they can get really buff. As Celerity said as well, they are very EQ dependant. I would hesitate to attack a decked DK with a malform and a charmie.. OUCH.
Veil of darkness is your friend.
DKs are one of the most powerful and offensive classes in the game - however, they take a bit to get used to how they play.
Evangelion: I disgaree with a lot of what you posted, however, the way I play DKs isn't the only way :-)
Personally, I prefer to play highly offensively. Dual wield + charmie + spells means you can put out a LOT of hurt. I found that communers and casters could be overcome with relative ease due to the pure damag eoutput.
Problems happen vs melee's - mostly melee's with staff+pugil. Warriors and rangers. They have enough defense to dull your onslaught of melee damange and can dish out quite a bit of their own. Generally, I tried to get the jump on them and under no circumstances fought them on even footing. That's more about PK skill than DK skill though.
Malform weapon is the signature skill of the class - and it is a beauty. Its banned from being spoken about on the forum, but I will say this: Try it, and perservere with it. You will not be disappointed.
Why aren't DK more represented? They aren't as survivable as say rangers or clerics. Players are a lot harder to run down than in the 'old' days so (IMHO) classes with surviviablility are more 'in vogue' than those with balls out PK power.
I suggest you take one to 50 and see how you go - they really are one of the classes that is incredibily fun to play.
L-A
PS - if you have one now and want some ideas on how to fight certain classes post up and I'll try to help.
LA- is the 'o charmie rescue me" thing still working and useful? I havent played my DK for ages coz my level 7 malform got hellstreamed (lol) but I can use some tips..
Would you recommend more HR/DR? Or more ac and saves?
Depends on the race really. If you're human/Avian, I'd say hitroll/damroll, if you're a Drow, you can sort of pick between the two though you'll be relying a lot more on mals because Drows don't really have a high hit/dam compared to Avian or Human. At least that's how I've seen it. You could go for damage though, but at 50 the whole fireball tactic wont really work like it did at 30 and Iceball though doing consistant damage doesn't really do you a whole lot either because well, a lot of people at 50 anymore will dish out a lot of pain compared to earlier ranks. Damage for Avian/Human, mals for Drow, though you could try to do a combo of both for either of the races.
I count a bought charmie, a charm person charmie, and a potential cabal charmie. I don't know that you could have the scroll charmie too. But you can probably have at least three, if not four. And you're right, DKs don't get weaken. My bad.
I don't think weight on weapon matters when cleaving.
Then you're wrong.
Read the help file and/or the code and/or the DK essay and/or Viri's old advice posts when people would whine about how underpowered they were after cleave got toned.
Or you could just roll up a DK, and try cleaving with a Divine Reckoning versus a Throwing Axe.
Depends on the race really. If you're human/Avian' date=' I'd say hitroll/damroll, if you're a Drow, you can sort of pick between the two though you'll be relying a lot more on mals because Drows don't really have a high hit/dam compared to Avian or Human. At least that's how I've seen it. You could go for damage though, but at 50 the whole fireball tactic wont really work like it did at 30 and Iceball though doing consistant damage doesn't really do you a whole lot either because well, a lot of people at 50 anymore will dish out a lot of pain compared to earlier ranks. Damage for Avian/Human, mals for Drow, though you could try to do a combo of both for either of the races.[/quote']
If you try to go straight mals, you will fail and die. With saves the way they are theses days, you will get out attritioned and out damaged, and you'll be at your pit wondering why Tantangel's advice didn't work.
Bring back cleave as a one hit kill stick it back at rank 30 aswell might see more dks roaming around then :eek: .
I'm gone for a few years and everyone starts bagging on dkn. You guys suck